College educations, accessability, free money? free educations? *discussion within*

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by 7960

1. I paid for school with absolutely 0 help from anyone else.
2. if we can cut other programs why aren't we cutting them right now and giving us back our money?
3. maybe, maybe not
4. I agree cutting it completely would be bad. I still think the jury is out on how much aid is needed.


How about you hand me your entire check and I'll give you back how much I think you need?

1) Again, just because YOU were able do doesn't mean others are. Your circumstances are likely different than others. I wouldn't be able to go to college without federal aid.

2) Ask Congress... especially the last one who had no oversight at all

3) How not? How many more who are currently in school and doing well will be affected? I know I will.

4) The things is that tuition has gone way up... 35% over inflation (my 5x earlier was way off)


This is education, it's what will increase our country's edge in the economy. It is often the difference between lower class and middle class.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

This is education, it's what will increase our country's edge in the economy. It is often the difference between lower class and middle class.

I disagree. If you handed most of the "lower class" a college degree and the education that came with it, they would be nowhere different from where they are now. There are great opportunities for people without college degrees to work hard and make good money. The separation between the lower and middle classes is mostly effort, not opportunity.

I can't tell you how many people I've seen in the "admin" field with college degrees. What a waste. We really don't need to send more of these people to college, we need to steer them to some sort of vocational school.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I disagree. If you handed most of the "lower class" a college degree and the education that came with it, they would be nowhere different from where they are now. There are great opportunities for people without college degrees to work hard and make good money. The separation between the lower and middle classes is mostly effort, not opportunity.

I can't tell you how many people I've seen in the "admin" field with college degrees. What a waste. We really don't need to send more of these people to college, we need to steer them to some sort of vocational school.

Why do people lump lower class with a worthless person?

since when does a person's income have anything to do with their work ethic? Is a coal miner worthless? how about someone who works 60+ hours a week at a gas station? Where are they headed?


I was making decent money at Unisys, but I hit a point with the company where I could not advance because I had no degree and no special training.

Some of you here seem to think that ANY company will advance you just for working hard.. that's not the case. Many have a fetish for having people with degrees and/or certs (the IT field being an example).

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

Why do people lump lower class with a worthless person?

since when does a person's income have anything to do with their work ethic? Is a coal miner worthless? how about someone who works 60+ hours a week at a gas station? Where are they headed?


I was making decent money at Unisys, but I hit a point with the company where I could not advance because I had no degree and no special training.

Some of you here seem to think that ANY company will advance you just for working hard.. that's not the case. Many have a fetish for having people with degrees and/or certs (the IT field being an example).

Oh well, you're shit out of luck then. (at least that's what some people here would say.) In your situation, you could use their tuition reimbursement program (I am assuming). But all this is off track to begin with.

Back on track...I am trying to figure out how the guy who works 3 jobs to just support his family can afford to go to school...let alone make time to go to school? "Anyone can do it because I did it" is the biggest load of shit I have ever read.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

Why do people lump lower class with a worthless person?

since when does a person's income have anything to do with their work ethic? Is a coal miner worthless? how about someone who works 60+ hours a week at a gas station? Where are they headed?


I was making decent money at Unisys, but I hit a point with the company where I could not advance because I had no degree and no special training.

Some of you here seem to think that ANY company will advance you just for working hard.. that's not the case. Many have a fetish for having people with degrees and/or certs (the IT field being an example).

I don't believe I suggested any company will be good to work for, but if you are diligent in both your work and the opportunities available in your field, you won't get stuck in a company with the ceiling.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

1) Again, just because YOU were able do doesn't mean others are. Your circumstances are likely different than others. I wouldn't be able to go to college without federal aid.

Again, just because you say/think you need aid doesn't mean everyone does, and it doesn't mean I should automatically be on the hook for providing it.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Oh well, you're shit out of luck then. (at least that's what some people here would say.)

Yep.

Back on track...I am trying to figure out how the guy who works 3 jobs to just support his family can afford to go to school...let alone make time to go to school? "Anyone can do it because I did it" is the biggest load of shit I have ever read.

And what's the endgame for this 3-jobber? Should we all pay so he can quit 2 jobs and go to school? Because like you said he's not going to have time to go to school if he's working 3 jobs.

Or maybe we all make our own bed........ so (once again) please stop asking for me to fund shit other people want to do.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

Again, just because you say/think you need aid doesn't mean everyone does, and it doesn't mean I should automatically be on the hook for providing it.

Then you weed out the people who don't actually NEED it during the screening process. If you want to rape this country in order to "get minez" then the price you should pay is to give back to your country in order to help your fellow man "get theres".

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I don't believe I suggested any company will be good to work for, but if you are diligent in both your work and the opportunities available in your field, you won't get stuck in a company with the ceiling.

This reminds me of that new fad going around.... "if you want something and say it to yourself over and over it'll happen"

That's not the real world.

some companies do tuition reimbursement.. but you need to pay for it in the first place.

and this doesn't even go for poor highschool students who don't have rich parents. Is it their fault their parents don't have money?

7960... please tell me your case of how you paid for school without loans or grants. I'm curious. Did you go to a 4 year school? Was it in state or out of state? What job did you have prior?

Because someone posting that they paid their own way through school with no help seems a bit odd to me unless you made a LOT of money with just a HS diploma.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by 7960

Or maybe we all make our own bed........ so (once again) please stop asking for me to fund shit other people want to do.

that kid in Harlem with a 3.4 GPA who's parents are dirt poor must've made his own bed.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

Yep.

Didn't see that one coming.

Originally Posted by 7960

And what's the endgame for this 3-jobber? Should we all pay so he can quit 2 jobs and go to school? Because like you said he's not going to have time to go to school if he's working 3 jobs.

Well let's see...how about the SAME AMERICAN DREAM everyone else has? You know, that bullshit "own a home, raise a family in a good clean environment, own cars and two cats and a dog." Let's use that as a baseline. That's the endgame. You said "everyone can do it" well you just saw a good example of someone that can't. What about his kids? Even if he can't go...why not let him take money from a fund that would help his kids? (you know, since he has to work three jobs just to live and can't save for his kids college - like some people.)

Originally Posted by 7960

Or maybe we all make our own bed........ so (once again) please stop asking for me to fund shit other people want to do.

Yeah, that's what we all do. We ALL make our own bed. I wish I lived in the world you do. Blinders.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

This reminds me of that new fad going around.... "if you want something and say it to yourself over and over it'll happen"

That's not the real world.

Not the real world?

I work with a GS-15 who has no college degree. Look up the Federal GS scale and see where that lands.

You're just not trying hard enough and looking for excuses.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Not the real world?

I work with a GS-15 who has no college degree. Look up the Federal GS scale and see where that lands.

You're just not trying hard enough and looking for excuses.

Was he in the military?

because I'll tell you now, just a look on usajobs and you'll be HARD PRESSED to find a GS15 job with no degree and just someone out of highschool..

oh, and sure, someone might be a GS-15 in about 20 years, compared to getting a 4 year degree. excellent




wait.... I'm not trying hard enough? I work 40 hours a week, provide the only transportation for my family including running errands/taking the kids to the bus stop and going to school full time. Sorry but in small town america there aren't many careers that are worth staying for 30 years in hope of one day breaking $40k/yr

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

Was he in the military?

because I'll tell you now, just a look on usajobs and you'll be HARD PRESSED to find a GS15 job with no degree and just someone out of highschool..

oh, and sure, someone might be a GS-15 in about 20 years, compared to getting a 4 year degree. excellent

nobody is hired at GS15 out of school - you get hired at GS7 or 9 maybe and WORK your way up. Believe it or not, the people with the good jobs for the most part worked their ways into those jobs, they weren't just handed those jobs on a platter.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by Phantom

nobody is hired at GS15 out of school - you get hired at GS7 or 9 maybe and WORK your way up. Believe it or not, the people with the good jobs for the most part worked their ways into those jobs, they weren't just handed those jobs on a platter.

was he in the military?

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

was he in the military?

I don't know. All I know is he was hired at a very low level and worked his way up.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I don't know. All I know is he was hired at a very low level and worked his way up.

that makes a huge difference.

you can't use the phrase, "this guy I know is a GS-15 and doesn't have a degree" when you don't even know the specifics of where he's been.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Then you weed out the people who don't actually NEED it during the screening process. If you want to rape this country in order to "get minez" then the price you should pay is to give back to your country in order to help your fellow man "get theres".

I took time off between high school and college.
I worked a shitload of hours at a really shitty job.
I saved all my money.
I made sure I didn't knock up any bitches.
I went back to school part-time because I couldn't afford full-time.
I got UPS to pay for what I couldn't afford.
When I finally got money worked out I went back full-time. If I couldn't work it out then I would have continued nights/weekends to get my degree.

I'm trying to figure out how working 60+ hours/week so I can go back to school constitutes raping the country.