College educations, accessability, free money? free educations? *discussion within*

[7960]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

Obviously, state legislatures and boards do not want their residents to assume the financial burden of educating persons whose presence in the state is not intended to be permanent, except in very specific situations (merit scholarships, for example). Thus, the nonresident tuition rate is born.

Exactly.......... nonresident tuition rates subsidize in-state students.

thanks.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by 7960

Exactly.......... nonresident tuition rates subsidize in-state students.

thanks.

interesting, I didn't even notice that.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by 7960

ditch digging in feb. in north dakota pays more than ditch digging in florida

plowing show pays very well, know why? because it's mostly at night, it's mostly shitty hours, it's a job not a lot of people want to do. exact same as UPS...that shift was working at night, it was shitty hours, and it wasn't a job a lot of people wanted to do. that's why they paid a premium for overnight shift.

people who work horrible hours are often paid more for it, and yes, money earned based upon specific criteria is just as earned as any other money.

I've pushed snow before. It pays the same in the day as the night. and the people that push snow are usually private contractors to the state. I worked for a company as a dump truck driver, it takes a few hours to convert a dump truck to a plow. Regardless, the pay is the same, day or night. The only pay difference is when you're on standby to when you're pushing.

As to the second part, yes, there's a pay differential. That's not what we're talking about... last I checked we're talking about a company paying for tuition based upon the shift that's being worked.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

I've pushed snow before. It pays the same in the day as the night. and the people that push snow are usually private contractors to the state.

No, most of the guys who plow work for private companies and plow private businesses, driveways, etc. My friends Gary, Joe N, Joe C, Steve, and a few more all own trucks and pay guys to plow. When they call their guys in to plow for them those guys, their employees, get paid more for plowing between 8pm and 6am. Gary doesn't get more but he has to pay his guys more for working at shitty times.

As to the second part, yes, there's a pay differential. That's not what we're talking about... last I checked we're talking about a company paying for tuition based upon the shift that's being worked.

Yep, we were. In 3 months I worked approximately 300 hours (5hrs/night, 5 days/week). So UPS had a choice...they could give me $2,500/semester or give me an extra ~$8/hr.

According to you if they gave me $8/hr then I would have earned it because it would have been my "pay", but because they gave me $2,500/semester as tuition reimbursement then I didn't earn it because it wasn't "pay."

You're going to have to explain that

[6SpeedTA95]

Wow, I have a busy day at work and this thread explodes.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by 7960

No, most of the guys who plow work for private companies and plow private businesses, driveways, etc. My friends Gary, Joe N, Joe C, Steve, and a few more all own trucks and pay guys to plow. When they call their guys in to plow for them those guys, their employees, get paid more for plowing between 8pm and 6am. Gary doesn't get more but he has to pay his guys more for working at shitty times.

I didn't push for private businesses, I pushed I-95 for VDOT from the Beltway down to Stafford.

Yep, we were. In 3 months I worked approximately 300 hours (5hrs/night, 5 days/week). So UPS had a choice...they could give me $2,500/semester or give me an extra ~$8/hr.

According to you if they gave me $8/hr then I would have earned it because it would have been my "pay", but because they gave me $2,500/semester as tuition reimbursement then I didn't earn it because it wasn't "pay."

You're going to have to explain that

I don't follow.. tuition reimbursement affected your wage, or are you treating the reimbursement as pay?

help me out here.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

I didn't push for private businesses, I pushed I-95 for VDOT from the Beltway down to Stafford.

So you worked for the state. If you had worked for a private company and plowed between 8pm and 6am you would have been paid more.

I don't follow.. tuition reimbursement affected your wage, or are you treating the reimbursement as pay?

help me out here.

I considered it pay because I wanted to go back to school so this was money that was going to come out of my pocket anyway. But it was not pay, it was tuition reimbursement. Every semester I submitted my grades and they handed me a check for $2,500.

But that doesn't matter one bit in the discussion we're having. I got a benefit for working a shitty shift. It was earned. It was entirely different than the feds taking taxes from the many to fund education for the few.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by 7960

So you worked for the state. If you had worked for a private company and plowed between 8pm and 6am you would have been paid more.

no


I worked for a company who contracted with VDOT

Welcome to Duffield Hauling, Inc.

I considered it pay because I wanted to go back to school so this was money that was going to come out of my pocket anyway. But it was not pay, it was tuition reimbursement. Every semester I submitted my grades and they handed me a check for $2,500.

But that doesn't matter one bit in the discussion we're having. I got a benefit for working a shitty shift. It was earned. It was entirely different than the feds taking taxes from the many to fund education for the few.

for the few?

Total spending, by source
Federal grants
Pell Grants

$13,090,000,000
Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grants

$771,000,000
Leveraging Educational Assistance Partnerships

$64,000,000
Veterans

$2,894,000,000
Military

$1,027,000,000
Other grants

$378,000,000
Federal Work-Study

$1,194,000,000
Federal loans
Perkins Loans

$1,263,000,000
Subsidized Stafford Student Loans
Ford Direct Student Loan Program

$6,192,000,000
Federal Family Education Loan Program

$20,989,000,000
Unsubsidized Stafford Student Loans
Ford Direct Student Loan Program

$5,068,000,000
Federal Family Education Loan Program

$20,614,000,000
Parent Loans for Undergraduate Students

$8,362,000,000
Other loans

$125,000,000
Federal education tax benefits

$8,037,000,000
Total federal aid

$90,068,000,000
State grant programs

$6,294,000,000
Institutional grants

$24,082,000,000
Private and employer grants

$8,445,000,000
Total federal, state, and institutional aid

$128,889,000,000
Nonfederal loans*

$13,793,000,000
Total aid used to finance postsecondary education

$142,682,000,000

Number of recipients and amount of aid per recipient, selected programs
Program

Recipients

Amount
Pell Grants

5,302,000

$2,469
Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grants

1,278,000

$603
Federal Work-Study

826,000

$1,446
Perkins Loans

673,000

$1,877
Subsidized Stafford Student Loans†
Undergraduates

5,546,000

$3,070
Graduate students

1,055,000

$6,793
Unsubsidized Stafford Student Loans†
Undergraduates

3,927,000

$3,346
Graduate students

991,000

$8,785
Parent Loans for Undergraduate Students †

810,000

$9,416
NOTE: Figures are estimates and include assistance to undergraduate and graduate students. Grant aid and tax benefits provide subsidies to students and families equal to the dollar amounts listed. The subsidy value of other aid is less than the dollar amounts awarded. Some federal programs include small amounts of money from sources other than the federal government. For example, Federal Work-Study includes some contributions by institutions. Because of rounding, details may not add to totals.

* These loans are omitted from the student-aid total because they do not provide any subsidies to borrowers.

† Figures for recipients reflect the number of borrowers, not the number of loans made.
SOURCE: The College Board

[Pro Street]

About 62 percent of all full-time college students receive grant aid. In 2005-2006, aid in the form of grants and tax benefits averaged about $2,200 per student at two-year public colleges, over $3,100 at public four-year colleges, and about $9,000 per student at private four-year colleges.

Cost of College - rising college tuition costs, admission price

62 percent isn't the few.

and to the article above, the total cost of grants is 142 billion.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

no


I worked for a company who contracted with VDOT

Welcome to Duffield Hauling, Inc.

Then yet again you managed to pork yourself, because Gary, Steve, Joe, Joe, etc all pay their guys more if they plow between 8pm and 6am.

for the few?

Way to completely bypass the real discussion and try to swing it to how many grants/loans there are.

Whether I earned $2500 by getting more money per hour or by working for someone that paid for part of my tution, I earned that extra money and paid for college myself.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by 7960

Then yet again you managed to pork yourself, because Gary, Steve, Joe, Joe, etc all pay their guys more if they plow between 8pm and 6am.

pork myself?

There's a big difference between someone plowing a parking lot in a pickup and what I did.

They're two different jobs, and the pay was the same day or night for what I did. What your buddies do is irrelevant.

Way to completely bypass the real discussion and try to swing it to how many grants/loans there are.

Whether I earned $2500 by getting more money per hour or by working for someone that paid for part of my tution, I earned that extra money and paid for college myself.

ok


you got a benefit and you still consider that actual wages

[7960]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

pork myself?

There's a big difference between someone plowing a parking lot in a pickup and what I did.

No, there's not........ well actually maybe there is. If it had snowed at night and you were plowing a parking lot you would have made MORE.

They're two different jobs, and the pay was the same day or night for what I did. What your buddies do is irrelevant.

It is relevant because it goes to show people working shitty hours often get more for doing so. But that goes against what you want to believe so I can understand how you'd say it's irrelevant.

ok

you got a benefit and you still consider that actual wages

I never said it was actual wages. I've said about 27 times I *considered* it pay because if I didn't take that job then I would have ended up paying $10k for school out of pocket so I came out ahead (worked fewer hours at an easier job and still ended up with the same amount of cash in my pocket).


Maybe I'm not using words you understand, I'm not sure. But since I can't think of any other way to describe it besides "Working overnight shift to get tuition reimbursement is still paying for college on your own" I'm done. Ask someone else, or read what they've already posted in this thread. I don't believe anyone agrees with you.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by 7960

No, there's not........ well actually maybe there is. If it had snowed at night and you were plowing a parking lot you would have made MORE.

and had to pay for salt, the truck, fuel, etc. no thanks.

It is relevant because it goes to show people working shitty hours often get more for doing so. But that goes against what you want to believe so I can understand how you'd say it's irrelevant.

did I not say TWO PAGES AGO that I'm aware of differential pay?

I never said it was actual wages. I've said about 27 times I *considered* it pay because if I didn't take that job then I would have ended up paying $10k for school out of pocket so I came out ahead (worked fewer hours at an easier job and still ended up with the same amount of cash in my pocket).


Maybe I'm not using words you understand, I'm not sure. But since I can't think of any other way to describe it besides "Working overnight shift to get tuition reimbursement is still paying for college on your own" I'm done. Ask someone else, or read what they've already posted in this thread. I don't believe anyone agrees with you.

No, I understand you completely. However when you say, "I paid for college all by myself" then make sure that you are actually paying for it yourself, not "considered it pay."


You got a benefit, through a company. you would have worked harder, or another job to afford college.

Most of the time, people cannot afford college without help. That's how it is.

I don't post here so people can agree with me. If I did I would be a sad person. And this forum is largely Paleolib and conservative, so when it comes to discussing any kind of federal funding I don't expect to have a fanclub.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

No, I understand you completely. However when you say, "I paid for college all by myself" then make sure that you are actually paying for it yourself, not "considered it pay."

But I did actually pay for it myself. Since it's illegal in this country to print your own money, and since the college wasn't interested in bartering I had to send them cash. I got the cash by working at various companies, some of which paid me a lot and some that paid me less but also gave me money for college. No matter how you look at it I worked for the money then sent it to the college. That means I paid for it myself. I didn't get a loan, I didn't ask mom and dad, I didn't stumble in a gold mine and mail them boxes of ore. I worked. I paid. All by myself.

You got a benefit, through a company. you would have worked harder, or another job to afford college.

I got that benefit by working, hence the "paid for college by myself" thing I keep saying.

Most of the time, people cannot afford college without help. That's how it is.

And most of the time people can't it's because they made other decisions that prevent it. If I decided to cut off my throwing arm 5 years ago I wouldn't expect an MLB team to draft me today. If I made a shitty decision that affected my future I wouldn't then ask everyone else to help me recover from it.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by 7960

But I did actually pay for it myself. Since it's illegal in this country to print your own money, and since the college wasn't interested in bartering I had to send them cash. I got the cash by working at various companies, some of which paid me a lot and some that paid me less but also gave me money for college. No matter how you look at it I worked for the money then sent it to the college. That means I paid for it myself. I didn't get a loan, I didn't ask mom and dad, I didn't stumble in a gold mine and mail them boxes of ore. I worked. I paid. All by myself.

Except for the fact the company paid $2500/semester for you.

I got that benefit by working, hence the "paid for college by myself" thing I keep saying.

that's some really screwy logic there. You got the benefit because you were working, yes.. but the company paid a large part of your tuition. It's money they gave you for going to school, to use for school. It is not part of your wages.

And most of the time people can't it's because they made other decisions that prevent it. If I decided to cut off my throwing arm 5 years ago I wouldn't expect an MLB team to draft me today. If I made a shitty decision that affected my future I wouldn't then ask everyone else to help me recover from it.

What makes you think that everyone using pell grants made shitty decisions? This is again an over generalization.. ...no, it's ARROGANCE, that somehow you're better than someone else. It's a shame really.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

Except for the fact the company paid $2500/semester for you.

wtf........... I worked at one job making something like $18/hr. I quit that job to go to UPS to make $12/hr because they were also going to pay $2500/semester for school for working the overnight shift.

How is that not earning it or whatever you're calling it?

that's some really screwy logic there. You got the benefit because you were working, yes.. but the company paid a large part of your tuition. It's money they gave you for going to school, to use for school. It is not part of your wages.

It's money they gave me for volunteering to work the overnight shift. It's not like I applied and they said "we like you, here's extra money." I had to do something very specific for it. This is not screwy logic.

What makes you think that everyone using pell grants made shitty decisions? This is again an over generalization.. ...no, it's ARROGANCE, that somehow you're better than someone else. It's a shame really.

christ, THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID.

That's not even CLOSE to what I said. But that's obviously what you want to believe because you keep saying shit I didn't say

Fuck it, nevermind.................

[Pro Street]