All this talk about selective tax paying

Pro Street · 02-19-2007, 02:23 PM

OK, I see this a lot here on LL:

"I don't want to pay for xxx because I don't believe in it"

or

"I shouldn't have to pay for someone else getting benefits and such"

So why should I pay for the Iraq war? Why should I pay for the aid the US gives out to other countries?

Ardentfrost · 02-19-2007, 02:26 PM

I don't think you should have to. If you want to give aid to other countries, then send them your money out of your pocket.

Pro Street · 02-19-2007, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I don't think you should have to. If you want to give aid to other countries, then send them your money out of your pocket.

So what happens if 10 years down the road, you suddenly find yourself laid off, and can't get a job soon enough? Would you want unemployment?

and don't even try to tell me, "it'll never happen to me"

DosEquis · 02-19-2007, 02:31 PM

I believe in very little unilateral foreign aid. I think if we help people we help people together with other countries. Darfur for example. We really need to help there, but we need to do it with others so that everyone has a vested interest in seeing a more humanitarian and overall safer planet. Going at things in a unilateral fashion makes us imperialist and shows us in a negative light even if we have a benevolent agenda.

kinggovernor · 02-19-2007, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

So what happens if 10 years down the road, you suddenly find yourself laid off, and can't get a job soon enough? Would you want unemployment?

and don't even try to tell me, "it'll never happen to me"

no I don't want to pay for unemployment for 10 years on the small chance that happens

I would rather have other insurance policies

Pro Street · 02-19-2007, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

no I don't want to pay for unemployment for 10 years on the small chance that happens

I would rather have other insurance policies

we'll just have to see in 10 years

to be honest you only have yourself right now... your list of obligations is small.

Diesel66 · 02-19-2007, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

So what happens if 10 years down the road, you suddenly find yourself laid off, and can't get a job soon enough? Would you want unemployment?

and don't even try to tell me, "it'll never happen to me"

unemployment isnt a tax, its a private insurance policy.

With all the insurance policies being sold today to people, you think that one wouldnt be part of the package being sold to individuals ?

Or an easy method is your company offers a small amount as a benefit but they allow you to buy more at the discounted rate. Similar to life/disability insurance.

kinggovernor · 02-19-2007, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

we'll just have to see in 10 years

to be honest you only have yourself right now... your list of obligations is small.

yes it is, but imagine if you could take the money that you are currently contributing to unemployment and instead invested it in a rainy day fund, I have one now that will last me around 3 months. As my life gets more complicated the fund will need to grow to meet those obligations

7960 · 02-19-2007, 04:43 PM

I'm amazed at the number of posts I see that basically say "I made some decisions before that are hurting me now so someone else should take care of me!!"

Anyway, back on point. I don't want to pay selective taxes. I want back all the money that's extra. When someone tells me "we can cover that extra $10M with what's already in the budget" then that means we were overtaxed by $10M. I want that back. I want the govt to figure out as closely as possible (I know it can't be exact) how much it costs to run the country and take that much in taxes. I don't want them asking for an increase because they believe something will come up, or they're afraid of being short....they should know approx how much all this shit costs and ask us for that much. Of course there's no way to prove this, but if that was how it was done IMO our taxes would go down and we'd get more for them.

DosEquis · 02-19-2007, 05:11 PM

We technically don't have any extra money because we have 8.7 trillion and counting in debt adding up. Sorry bud, but the last three "conservative" presidents have fucked us.

Dumpy Dooby · 02-19-2007, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

I'm amazed at the number of posts I see that basically say "I made some decisions before that are hurting me now so someone else should take care of me!!"

Anyway, back on point. I don't want to pay selective taxes. I want back all the money that's extra. When someone tells me "we can cover that extra $10M with what's already in the budget" then that means we were overtaxed by $10M. I want that back. I want the govt to figure out as closely as possible (I know it can't be exact) how much it costs to run the country and take that much in taxes. I don't want them asking for an increase because they believe something will come up, or they're afraid of being short....they should know approx how much all this shit costs and ask us for that much. Of course there's no way to prove this, but if that was how it was done IMO our taxes would go down and we'd get more for them.

That's pretty much how the taxing system worked until the 16th Amendment. Congress would have to borrow money and then pay it back every year. Each person was charged the same amount, with that amount not exceeding ten dollars per person. The Census Bureau exists so that people can be counted so that the states know how to divide the costs amongst the people, i.e., taxation based on enumeration.

RMNIXON · 02-19-2007, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I don't think you should have to. If you want to give aid to other countries, then send them your money out of your pocket.

We live in a Republic not a pure Democracy. You get to vote for the people who represent you when money is spent and policy is made. The idea is that an elected government represents tax payers. They work for us! Problem is when you allow growing amounts of direct government benefits more and more voters represent segments of society who will always vote for who protects their tax based benefits. Baby Boomers are about to take you young people for a payroll tax ride you are not ready for! Iraq war and Foreign Aid will be a distant memory........

RMNIXON · 02-19-2007, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

We technically don't have any extra money because we have 8.7 trillion and counting in debt adding up. Sorry bud, but the last three "conservative" presidents have fucked us.

Rich people pay the major portion of taxes so they will finance the major portion of any debt. If your rich why shouldn't we not fuck you?

DosEquis · 02-19-2007, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Rich people pay the major portion of taxes so they will finance the major portion of any debt. If your rich why shouldn't we not fuck you?

Our country needs the money and they can only get so much from the middle and poorer. We have 445 billion for defense and 350 billion alone in interest on our debt. We need another 140 billion over the next year for Iraq. That trillion has to come from some place. I am short this month..sorry.

What it does affect is our national security and the tax levels for everyone, not just rich people. If we did not have that debt, the majority of which was courtesy of reagan/bush/bush, We could have healthcare for everyone, or build a moon base and take people there, have a new space shuttle, or all sorts of things. Instead we have a stale Iraq, 8.7 trillion in debt, and enough nuclear weapons to blow up the world 25 times.

ballz2wallz · 02-19-2007, 05:53 PM

There's a difference between a war and entitlement programs.

DosEquis · 02-19-2007, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

There's a difference between a war and entitlement programs.

Not in this case in that they are both out of choice and not necessity.

Diesel66 · 02-19-2007, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Not in this case in that they are both out of choice and not necessity.

The war portion, sure. But not the DOD's budget.