Cheney refuses to apologize to Pelosi: I meant it!

[motivez]

It's not a factual statement. Al Qaeda wants to draw us into a long drawn out quagmire where we spend our money and they get training. Osama has publicized this.

Getting us out of that quagmire and into a position where we can begin to change the dynamic in Iraq is a good idea since presently, the Administration refuses to implement any kind of new policy. Right now we're simply sitting around watching American soldiers die for nothing, with no strategy or mission or way to move the country forward.

I love how some people view this whole thing as a 'free ride' for people who rightly criticize Bush's failures.

Yeah, I mean, you know, having ones patriotism questioned, being called a terrorist sympathizer, told you want to make America less safe, how your goals are the terrorist goals, etc, all in the name of speaking out about policies which are harming American on many levels has been such a care free ride with no consequences thus far.. Give me a break.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by motivez

It has nothing to do with a defense mechanism

Questioning the patriotism and implying that liberals or the left hate America or wont do what's needed to protect the nation has been an offensive strategy of the Republican party / neocons for years now.

Being critical of a stategy is no such thing. What is good for the goose............

Just how many times have we heard that Iraq has just strired up the terrorist and made them more of a threat? If Pelosi and Murtha think this is another Afghanistan they say it? Stop the whining about being picked on. You have the Congress. Now act like it!

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by motivez

I love how some people view this whole thing as a 'free ride' for people who rightly criticize Bush's failures.

I am talking about people in a leadership position. That is clear in both posts. Maybe they need your to help with their arguments?

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, I mean, you know, having ones patriotism questioned, being called a terrorist sympathizer, told you want to make America less safe, how your goals are the terrorist goals, etc, all in the name of speaking out about policies which are harming American on many levels has been such a care free ride with no consequences thus far.. Give me a break.

If Cheney ever said that he should apologize......

[motivez]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

If Cheney ever said that he should apologize......

It's been the standard GOP line when criticizing Democrats / anyone left of their positions for the last few years. This specific comment may be a bit more muted and not as direct as in the past, but his implication is as clear as ever.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by motivez

It's been the standard GOP line when criticizing Democrats / anyone left of their positions for the last few years. This specific comment may be a bit more muted and not as direct as in the past, but his implication is as clear as ever.

I understand if your offended. The point is well taken.

But I am talking about Pelosi and Murtha. They need to stop acting like they are Jane Fonda speaking at the Nationa Mall. If they think Cheney is wrong they should make their case as leadership. Don't go crying for an apology. Makes you look French......

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

It has nothing to do with a defense mechanism

Questioning the patriotism and implying that liberals or the left hate America or wont do what's needed to protect the nation has been an offensive strategy of the Republican party / neocons for years now.

The reality of the situation though is that they're the ones who've made us less safe through their numerous failed policy decisions and the clusterfuck / waste of American lives Iraq has become, and the American people see it now.

Finally Democrats have begun to regain their spine and are starting to fight back against these pathetic attacks on patriotism. The idea that a disagreement on policy somehow validates Al Qaeda's strategy is ridiculous.

The Democrats could make a valid (and, contrary to the neocon wishful thinking, factual) point that Osama's strategy is simply to get us to repeat what happened to the Soviet's in Afghanistan and the Republicans are helping him succeed... but they don't, because disagreements in policy decisions should never be linked to the idiotic idea that our Congress wants to see Al Qaeda succeed.

so if you criticize a liberal's foreign policy plan that is questioning their patriotism?

I don't think liberals hate America, I think they are too soft to run this country.

Liberals are fighting back with lots of rhetoric and a slow bleed plan, which only reaffirms my belief that they are too soft to run the foreign policy of this country

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

so if you criticize a liberal's foreign policy plan that is questioning their patriotism?

I don't think liberals hate America, I think they are too soft to run this country.

Liberals are fighting back with lots of rhetoric and a slow bleed plan, which only reaffirms my belief that they are too soft to run the foreign policy of this country

You can criticize the foreign policy all you want, however, linking their foreign policy ideas to "helping Al Qaeda" is a bullshit way to do it.

The "slow bleed" phrase is bullshit rhetoric and not really indicative of the strategy suggested.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

You can criticize the foreign policy all you want, however, linking their foreign policy ideas to "helping Al Qaeda" is a bullshit way to do it.

why?

The "slow bleed" phrase is bullshit rhetoric and not really indicative of the strategy suggested.

It is indicative of what was suggested

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

why?

Because you can be against someone's ideas without suggesting that they're trying to support terrorism against our country, that they hate America, etc, like Dick and George and the rest of these numbnuts have been doing for the last 3 years to anyone who dared disagree with them.

It is indicative of what was suggested

I disagree.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

Because you can be against someone's ideas without suggesting that they're trying to support terrorism against our country, that they hate America, etc, like Dick and George and the rest of these numbnuts have been doing for the last 3 years to anyone who dared disagree with them.

Pelosi isn't trying to support terrorism, but her ideas do help Al Qeada accomplish their goal of defeating the United States, that is the opinion of the VP and he is entitled of stating that

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

Pelosi isn't trying to support terrorism, but her ideas do help Al Qeada accomplish their goal of defeating the United States, that is the opinion of the VP and he is entitled of stating that

Sure, he can say whatever he wants.. I don't begrudge him that opportunity.

Luckily for me and the rest of the country, most people stopped taking those kinds of idiotic comments seriously long ago though

[Thorgrim]

Pelosi slandered the troops?

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

Sure, he can say whatever he wants.. I don't begrudge him that opportunity.

Luckily for me and the rest of the country, most people stopped taking those kinds of idiotic comments seriously long ago though

the same that moderate democrats support?

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

the same that moderate democrats support?

Moderates (of any) support the implication that anything against the Bush Administration's policy is helping terrorism?

Please... to hear someone say that "opposition to the state" emboldens the enemy, i.e. to suggest this nation be under quiet compliance, is more of a threat to me than any Al-Q member.

[avsp]

Seeing the issue of Chenney's refusal to apologise to Pelosi as any kind of issue whatsoever is to entirely miss the point, (woof! woof!?), ..., but seeing how we're going down the road to irrelevancy, ...,

Originally Posted by Chenney in article

And the point I made and I’ll make it again is that al-Qaida functions on the basis that they think they can break our will. That’s their fundamental underlying strategy, that if they can kill enough Americans or cause enough havoc, create enough chaos in Iraq, then we’ll quit and go home. And my statement was that if we adopt the Pelosi policy, that then we will validate the strategy of al-Qaida. I said it and I meant it

If it really is AQ strategy to break break public will by killing enough soldiers & Chenney knew this then isnt it the case that he either
misjudged the people & involved them in a war in which they arent really prepared to make any significant sacrifice
&/or
he totally misled them as to the nature of the war
&/or
the war has been conducted so badly that AQ are able to establish a strategy of attrition

In any case this is his fault, ..., alternately his remarks are aiimed at reinforcing the perception that the conflict is part of the "war on terror". But maybe he is just trying to bolster the will of the people?

The inability of the Dems to reconcile their new power with the electorial needs of not being perceived as anti-troop just shows what a mess CoW is in.

I should well imagine that anti-democratic jihadists the world over are pointing to this dilema & discussion such as this in order to show the 'weakness' & 'poverty' of the democratic process.

The absence of any ability by anyone to build a fresh consensus is a very real problem.