Cheney refuses to apologize to Pelosi: I meant it!

[JaJae]

A few days ago Cheney made a statement that Pelosi and Murtha's slow bleed strategy is exactly what al Qeada wants. The media repeated it and Pelosi got offended, called his office and demanded an apology.

Well Cheney has made a public statement on what he said previously...

Vice President Dick Cheney refused Friday to take back his charge that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s opposition to President Bush’s Iraq war buildup is playing into the hands of the al Qaeda terrorist network.

“If you’re going to advocate a course of action that basically is withdrawal of our forces from Iraq, then you don’t get to just do the fun part of that, that says, ‘We’ll, we’re going to get out,’ and appeal to your constituents on that basis,” Cheney said…

“You also have to be accountable for the results. What are the consequences of that? What happens if we withdraw from Iraq?,” he said. “And the point I made and I’ll make it again is that al-Qaida functions on the basis that they think they can break our will. That’s their fundamental underlying strategy, that if they can kill enough Americans or cause enough havoc, create enough chaos in Iraq, then we’ll quit and go home. And my statement was that if we adopt the Pelosi policy, that then we will validate the strategy of al-Qaida. I said it and I meant it.”

Asked if he was willing to take back his criticism of Pelosi, Cheney replied, “I’m not backing down.”

Cat fight going on here. Apparently Cheney is not going to stand down to the apology demanding Pelosi. It's interesting of all the criticism Pelosi has of the administration she's demanding an apology from Cheney. They never asked her for an apology. I don't find Cheney's position offensive. Slandering our troops is deserving of an apology. Being critical of someone's silly plan is not. If the hypocritical Pelosi is going to demand apologies from people for being critical of her political views she better clear her weekend calendar and start doing so herself.

[motivez]

It's more of the same from the neocon Republicans.. questioning the patriotism of anyone who dares disagree with their idiotic policy decisions. Luckily most of America has actually come around to the more sane view held by the Democrats that their stupid ideas are actually stupid and require a change.

The real "slow bleed" strategy is the one the Republicans have been implementing for years now. The blood is that of our troops, and it's the lack of progress that's slow.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

It's more of the same from the neocon Republicans.. questioning the patriotism of anyone who dares disagree with their idiotic policy decisions. Luckily most of America has actually come around to the more sane view held by the Democrats that their stupid ideas are actually stupid and require a change.

The real "slow bleed" strategy is the one the Republicans have been implementing for years now. The blood is that of our troops, and it's the lack of progress that's slow.

He didn't question her patriotism. The Democrats haven't even come around to the insane views of Pelosi and Murtha, I don't think America will either. I agree America is moving towards the ideals of the moderate Democrats, but certainly not Pelosi and Murtha. If they did, Murtha would be sitting a bit higher in the Democratic party right now and wouldn't be forced to lash out in anger against his own party on far left political websites.

[motivez]

Of course he did. You can't say that someone's essentially supporting Al Qaeda's goals and not be questioning their patriotism at the same time.

If he didn't want to get that jab in there he could have said it differently than he did, but again, it's nothing new. This is their MO and the American people aren't buying it anymore.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

Of course he did. You can't say that someone's essentially supporting Al Qaeda's goals and not be questioning their patriotism at the same time.

If he didn't want to get that jab in there he could have said it differently than he did, but again, it's nothing new. This is their MO and the American people aren't buying it anymore.

No he said her plan gives al qaeda what they want. Is that not a factual statement? He didn't say she intends it to be that way or she's anti-american or anything of the sort. It's the side effect of her plan and it's one of the reasons why he chooses to disagree with it. He criticized her plan, nor her or her intentions/motives/etc.

When Pelosi says Bush and Cheney's efforts in Iraq made us less safe and strengthened al Qaeda in Iraq is she questioning his patriotism?

[JSmythe]

What to do in Iraq remains a problem, but I agree with JaJae, Cheney did not attack Pelosi personally in any way. He is criticizing her policy position with a relevant point that Al Qaeda would, in fact, like it if we left Iraq.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JSmythe

What to do in Iraq remains a problem, but I agree with JaJae, Cheney did not attack Pelosi personally in any way. He is criticizing her policy position with a relevant point that Al Qaeda would, in fact, like it if we left Iraq.

I bet that they loved us invading Iraq too, but I don't see people bringing that up.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I bet that they loved us invading Iraq too, but I don't see people bringing that up.

Some people did years ago. That was in the past. Cheney was responding to current events hence the reason they're bringing up the current events of Murtha's plan.

People made the argument in the past that invading Iraq was something al Qaeda wanted because it helped their recruitment levels, etc.

[JaJae]

This was the original quote Pelosi demanded an apology for:
My Way News - Cheney Slams Iraq Plan Advocated by Dems

"I think if we were to do what Speaker Pelosi and Congressman Murtha are suggesting, all we will do is validate the al-Qaida strategy," the vice president told ABC News. "The al-Qaida strategy is to break the will of the American people ... try to persuade us to throw in the towel and come home, and then they win because we quit."

I don't see how this is questioning her patriotism or worthy of an apology personally. I think it's more likely a publicity stunt by Pelosi who called his office, left the message and then called the media networks to tell them what she did. She's playing the victim here I think.

[Scrum]

ROFL

Looking into this I saw this wonderful gem.

Vice President Cheney today repeated his charge that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's approach toward the Iraq war would benefit al-Qaeda, saying that he was not trying to impugn the speaker's patriotism but instead hold her accountable for the consequences of her policies.

This administration even talking about the accountability of others is beyond ridiculous.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by JaJae

No he said her plan gives al qaeda what they want. Is that not a factual statement? He didn't say she intends it to be that way or she's anti-american or anything of the sort. It's the side effect of her plan and it's one of the reasons why he chooses to disagree with it. He criticized her plan, nor her or her intentions/motives/etc.

I do not believe that to be a factual statement.

We do not know what al queda "wants". Al Queda is not a collective consciousness with a clear plan, view, or goal. The ideals we know are loose enough not to apply to every member and not only that, they are not organized enough to be considered what? A Gang? A Terrorist organization? The MO of organizations like that is that they are so broken up, they aren't collective. That's why we only find a fistful at a time, instead of a standing "army" of them.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

It's more of the same from the neocon Republicans.. questioning the patriotism of anyone who dares disagree with their idiotic policy decisions. Luckily most of America has actually come around to the more sane view held by the Democrats that their stupid ideas are actually stupid and require a change.

The real "slow bleed" strategy is the one the Republicans have been implementing for years now. The blood is that of our troops, and it's the lack of progress that's slow.

that is a nice defensive mechanism, OMG they are questioning her patriotism, but that never happened. At all. Cheney was making the exact point that our enemy believes, that we are soft, fat and not committed to victory. I believe the far left, like Pelosi and crew, are too soft to keep this country safe.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I do not believe that to be a factual statement.

We do not know what al queda "wants". Al Queda is not a collective consciousness with a clear plan, view, or goal. The ideals we know are loose enough not to apply to every member and not only that, they are not organized enough to be considered what? A Gang? A Terrorist organization? The MO of organizations like that is that they are so broken up, they aren't collective. That's why we only find a fistful at a time, instead of a standing "army" of them.

the tactics they use have nothing to with their beliefs. They want the destruction of Israel and America.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

that is a nice defensive mechanism, OMG they are questioning her patriotism, but that never happened. At all. Cheney was making the exact point that our enemy believes, that we are soft, fat and not committed to victory. I believe the far left, like Pelosi and crew, are too soft to keep this country safe.

It has nothing to do with a defense mechanism

Questioning the patriotism and implying that liberals or the left hate America or wont do what's needed to protect the nation has been an offensive strategy of the Republican party / neocons for years now.

The reality of the situation though is that they're the ones who've made us less safe through their numerous failed policy decisions and the clusterfuck / waste of American lives Iraq has become, and the American people see it now.

Finally Democrats have begun to regain their spine and are starting to fight back against these pathetic attacks on patriotism. The idea that a disagreement on policy somehow validates Al Qaeda's strategy is ridiculous.

The Democrats could make a valid (and, contrary to the neocon wishful thinking, factual) point that Osama's strategy is simply to get us to repeat what happened to the Soviet's in Afghanistan and the Republicans are helping him succeed... but they don't, because disagreements in policy decisions should never be linked to the idiotic idea that our Congress wants to see Al Qaeda succeed.

[Jas0n]

Cheney didn't say that a disagreement on policy validates al-Qaeda's strategy. He said that the so-called "slow bleed" policy suggested by Pelosi would play into what al-Qaeda seems to want. Also, I don't see that at all as saying "Pelosi, you're not a fucking patriot and you hate America!!!!11" so much as: "Pelosi, your proposed strategy is not conducive to a positive outcome, if our intention is to defeat al-Qaeda."

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Cheney didn't say that a disagreement on policy validates al-Qaeda's strategy.

Yes he did:

I think if we were to do what Speaker Pelosi and Congressman Murtha are suggesting, all we will do is validate the al-Qaida strategy," the vice president told ABC News. "The al-Qaida strategy is to break the will of the American people ... try to persuade us to throw in the towel and come home, and then they win because we quit."

But even so that doesn't mean he questioned her Patriotism. In response he has said:

"I'm not questioning her patriotism. I'm questioning her judgment."

He is clearly saying that pulling out of Iraq will validate the al-Qaida strategy which he outlined as breaking the will of the American people and persuading us to leave Iraq. Pelosi and Murtha's strategy is just that. It says we do not want any part of Iraq anymore. We want to leave because we don't see any positive end in sight. Hence, the al-Qaida strategy is successful. They ran us out of Iraq because our politicians don't have the will to continue fighting.

Now one can say.. who cares if we validate it? We have to do what's best for us at this point. That's a fine rebuttal. But I truly don't see how "Pelosi is unpatriotic" or "Pelosi hates America" was said by that statement. Perhaps it's years of neocon politics and rhetoric in the back of people's heads. But, the words Cheney spoke about Pelosi were no more offensive than the talking heads on the left saying that Cheney and Bush's policies in Iraq have made America and Iraq less safe. In both cases, they're both non-offensive to someone's patriotism.

[Jas0n]

Nah... he said that Pelosi's policy validates said strategy. Not a disagreement on policy, but the policy itself.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Nah... he said that Pelosi's policy validates said strategy. Not a disagreement on policy, but the policy itself.

I understand what you're saying now. I misunderstood you. I apologize.

But yea I agree, basically saying 'Your idea gives the terrorists what they want' is no different when Cheney says it or when people say al Qaida loved it when we sent our troops over because it helped their recruitment. It's the same thing. It attacks the policy, not the integrity or patriotism of the policy writer.

Cheney can disagree with someone's policy without calling them unpatriotic... I know it may not have happened too often but it can happen...

[Jas0n]

No harm, no foul, or whatever.