James Cameron found the tomb of Jesus?

motivez · 02-25-2007, 10:52 AM

Brace yourself. James Cameron, the man who brought you 'The Titanic' is back with another blockbuster. This time, the ship he's sinking is Christianity.

In a new documentary, Producer Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected --the cornerstone of Christian faith-- and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. And, get this, Jesus sired a son with Mary Magdelene.

No, it's not a re-make of "The Da Vinci Codes'. It's supposed to be true.

Let's go back 27 years, when Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot, a Jerusalem suburb. of Jerusalem. The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archologists were summoned, and the stone caskets carted away for examination. It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.

Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.

There was also this little inconvenience that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Christ's resurrection, after all, is the main foundation of the faith, proof that a boy born to a carpenter's wife in a manger is the Son of God.

But film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

Ever the showman, (Why does this remind me of the impresario in another movie,"King Kong", whose hubris blinds him to the dangers of an angry and very large ape?) Cameron is holding a New York press conference on Monday at which he will reveal three coffins, supposedly those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene. News about the film, which will be shown soon on Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision, and Israel's Channel 8, has been a hot blog topic in the Middle East (check out a personal favorite: Israelity Bites) Here in the Holy Land, Biblical Archeology is a dangerous profession. This 90-minute documentary is bound to outrage Christians and stir up a titanic debate between believers and skeptics. Stay tuned.

--Tim McGirk/Jerusalem

From: Jesus: Tales from the Crypt - The Middle East Blog - TIME

Well, that's interesting. I wonder if he actually is completely serious about this or it's just hype from the movie?

I don't know how DNA could be used to prove anything like he's suggesting.. but I'll definitely be interested to see what comes of this.

For the Christian's out there, what would happen to your faith if the body of Jesus was found, and it could be proven without a shadow of a doubt that he actually did get married, have a family, etc, etc?

Would you continue to believe he's the savior, or would you look for other truth?

Dumpy Dooby · 02-25-2007, 01:39 PM

While I really liked The Exodus Decoded (a previous documentary that these two did together), I could rip it to shreds. I like Simcha Jacobovici a lot, but he's somewhat of a threat to understanding actual facts. You see, he's intellectually dishonest in the sense that he attempts to use logic and reason and apply it to subjective half-truths (like evidence points to two possible results, but he insists that he's proven one is right while the other isn't).

I read a few of his debates after the Exodus Decoded. Basically, there were people calling him out on the chronology that was presented. Well, those that called him out failed to recognize that he's an excellent logic professor. So he would go in and tear them apart in a formal debate. This wasn't due to him having a superior intellectual premise; it was due to him just being better at arguing than most people.

That's why I say he's intellectually dishonest. He's dishonest in the same manner that standardized tests yield dishonest results. They merely show how good one is at taking and studying for tests, rather than showing an overall academic understanding of the subject that's being tested. Jacobovici merely shows how good he is at participating in formal debates, rather than showing an overall understanding of Egyptian history.

I'm sure I'll like this new film, but I don't expect it to necessarily substantiate more than the views and opinions expressed by other scholars in the same field.

Dylith · 02-25-2007, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Well, that's interesting. I wonder if he actually is completely serious about this or it's just hype from the movie?

My guess is a little of both.

I don't know how DNA could be used to prove anything like he's suggesting.. but I'll definitely be interested to see what comes of this.

I was wondering that as well. What are they comparing the DNA to?

For the Christian's out there, what would happen to your faith if the body of Jesus was found, and it could be proven without a shadow of a doubt that he actually did get married, have a family, etc, etc?

I think we would see a mass revival of early Christian thought. A lot of early Christians didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus. The notion that Jesus was/is God (YHWH) started to become popular about two generations after his death (around the same time that see see Biblical books such as the Gospels were written). To some he was merely a great prophet, to others he was the "logos" or word of God that was suppose to preceed the Messiah. The notion that all three were/are one started to become very popular due to the contributions of several people. Among them were powerful religious heads such as Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nazianzus, and Gregory of Nyssa.

Thanks for sharing this, I'll have to keep an eye on it.

Dylith · 02-25-2007, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

That's why I say he's intellectually dishonest. He's dishonest in the same manner that standardized tests yield dishonest results. They merely show how good one is at taking and studying for tests, rather than showing an overall academic understanding of the subject that's being tested. Jacobovici merely shows how good he is at participating in formal debates, rather than showing an overall understanding of Egyptian history.

I'm sure I'll like this new film, but I don't expect it to necessarily substantiate more than the views and opinions expressed by other scholars in the same field.

I missed the Exodus Decoded. I'll have to take you word for it. Too bad.

Diesel66 · 02-26-2007, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't know how DNA could be used to prove anything like he's suggesting.. but I'll definitely be interested to see what comes of this.

nobody knows if he had any family so how in the hell could they trace his DNA

For the Christian's out there, what would happen to your faith if the body of Jesus was found, and it could be proven without a shadow of a doubt that he actually did get married, have a family, etc, etc?

Dont you think the Romans and Jews would have loved to destroy the Christian movement by finding his body ?

ballz2wallz · 02-26-2007, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Dont you think the Romans and Jews would have loved to destroy the Christian movement by finding his body ?

Seriously, the Romans wanted nothing more to destroy Christianity; they had a much better chance of 'finding a body' than we do today.

lew · 02-26-2007, 10:50 AM

Interesting.

Dumpy Dooby · 02-26-2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Seriously, the Romans wanted nothing more to destroy Christianity; they had a much better chance of 'finding a body' than we do today.

I think that's just more evidence that there never was a Jesus.

motivez · 02-27-2007, 04:28 PM

I caught a bit of the press conference at the campus lounge but I wasn't really paying too much attention.. anyone have a video link?

Diamond Cross · 02-27-2007, 05:51 PM

I do not agree that it would blow Christianity away. First of all, it would never have been Jesus's bones as he's been ressurected. He was resuurected three days after He was crucified. And He was taken up into heaven so you're not going to find His bones anywhere on the planet earth.

Now, you may find the actual tomb he was buried in, but His bones can not be there. It would only actually reaffirm the Christian faith, not destroy it.

Scrum · 02-27-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

I do not agree that it would blow Christianity away. First of all, it would never have been Jesus's bones as he's been ressurected. He was resuurected three days after He was crucified. And He was taken up into heaven so you're not going to find His bones anywhere on the planet earth.

Now, you may find the actual tomb he was buried in, but His bones can not be there. It would only actually reaffirm the Christian faith, not destroy it.

What if they find his bones in there?

Donkey® · 02-28-2007, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

I do not agree that it would blow Christianity away. First of all, it would never have been Jesus's bones as he's been ressurected. He was resuurected three days after He was crucified. And He was taken up into heaven so you're not going to find His bones anywhere on the planet earth.

Now, you may find the actual tomb he was buried in, but His bones can not be there. It would only actually reaffirm the Christian faith, not destroy it.

Then why are christians so appalled by it?

Diamond Cross · 02-28-2007, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

What if they find his bones in there?

How would you identify His bones?

Impossible.

Those bones could not be His bones because He was resurerected and taken up to heaven, as I had already explained.

Christians are appalled because it's just another senseless attack like The DaVinci Codes, with no basis in facts.

JaJae · 02-28-2007, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Then why are christians so appalled by it?

Because somebody claims to have found a tomb and that if there's bones in it they're Jesus's with no basis to say so. It's an attack on Christianity because they're making unfounded assumptions... in their opinion.

Scrum · 03-01-2007, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Those bones could not be His bones because He was resurerected and taken up to heaven, as I had already explained.

And you have some evidence of this that isn't a book written by many different people hundreds and hundreds of years ago?

R-Type · 03-01-2007, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

How would you identify His bones?

Impossible.

Those bones could not be His bones because He was resurerected and taken up to heaven, as I had already explained.

Christians are appalled because it's just another senseless attack like The DaVinci Codes, with no basis in facts.

attack, eh? why is it christians always act like they're enduring so much suffrage in this country, meanwhile they're the ones doing most of the dictating?...at least in the political spectrum. They remind me of of the whiny liberal stereotype. Anyway, even if this movie is intended as a challenge to the faith, doesn't cameron have 1st amendment rights too? This sounds like another case of 'you're free to be like me' syndrome.

The only reason the davinci code was blown into a big deal was BECAUSE christians made such a big deal out of it. In doing so, they accomplished exactly the opposite of what they intended. Their carrying on drew a whole bunch of eyeballs to the book, which probably spurred the selling of the movie rights in the first place. I fail to see how this movie's any different. People tend to either love cameron's movies or hate them, but you have to remember that it's entertainment. I sure hope you didn't think the terminator movies were real.

Diamond Cross · 03-01-2007, 10:56 PM

Silly atheist boy. America is for Christians only, and everybody else should just get out.

Scrum · 03-02-2007, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Silly atheist boy. America is for Christians only, and everybody else should just get out.

Good thing the wrote that in bold across the top of the Constitution.

Oh....wait.

Diamond Cross · 03-02-2007, 01:22 AM

YEah I forgot my.....

Donkey® · 03-04-2007, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Because somebody claims to have found a tomb and that if there's bones in it they're Jesus's with no basis to say so. It's an attack on Christianity because they're making unfounded assumptions... in their opinion.

Christians have no basis to say a majority of the shit they do.