More good news in Iraq

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by avsp

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | US approves more troops for Iraq



Its a bit worrying that this need wasnt foreseen in the surge planning,. OTOH its good that its been recognised & fixed.

I still suspect that an extra 100,000+ troops are really needed

McCain wanted at least 40,000 and I agree that if the plan was to surge the country with a force, it should have been 50,000 to 100,000 more, not a meager 24,000 (plus the other 20,000 support deployed).


I have a suspicion that if things continue like they are currently with this surge, more troops will be ordered in.

[avsp]

i'd like to be able to claim serenity but in truth its just the puters are v slow today

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I don't think the Iraqis killing each other is proof of 'bad news in Iraq', as their deaths are not really the argument for pulling our troops out. The argument for ending the war is to 'end unnecessary deaths of our American soldiers' is it not? The Middle East is full of Muslims killing each other by the hundreds all the time, how is that 'better' or 'worse' than it otherwise would be?

If Iraqi lives (& thus their suffering), are of little consequence then pre-war justifications to do with freeing the Iraqi people from the brutality of Saddams regimes are, ..., what exactly?

If US, (CoW?), troops lives are so important then why even bother to have armed forces at all? But then you used the word 'unnecessary', so, if the claims about the threat posed by Saddam to the 'west' are to be seen as realistic then isnt there the same threat posed by any likely new regime if there was apull-out now? Isnt it likely that a new Iraq under Sadr have WMD aspirations of their own?

B2W points are really arguements for not having gone in the first place, which is besides the point now anyway

I think that the Sunni insurgency want CoW troops to stay whilst I suspect that Sadr may want them to leave

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by avsp

i'd like to be able to claim serenity but in truth its just the puters are v slow today


If Iraqi lives (& thus their suffering), are of little consequence then pre-war justifications to do with freeing the Iraqi people from the brutality of Saddams regimes are, ..., what exactly?

If US, (CoW?), troops lives are so important then why even bother to have armed forces at all? But then you used the word 'unnecessary', so, if the claims about the threat posed by Saddam to the 'west' are to be seen as realistic then isnt there the same threat posed by any likely new regime if there was apull-out now? Isnt it likely that a new Iraq under Sadr have WMD aspirations of their own?

B2W points are really arguements for not having gone in the first place, which is besides the point now anyway

I think that the Sunni insurgency want CoW troops to stay whilst I suspect that Sadr may want them to leave

They will be killing each other whether we're there or not. The disputes between the different sects have gone on for centuries. This is a continuation of such.

I only argue that it's not a good measure of 'good' or 'bad'. Whether or not it's worthy of ending is a different story, and I believe that's our intent still, at the moment.

[avsp]

well ok then.

But the tone of you post could be seen as reflecting a belief that the Iraqis dont really matter &/or that they are all a bunch of murderous thugs, neiher of which views help anyone at all.

Personally I find the fewer hatefull acts of sectarian violence the better & thats a 'valid' neasure of progress in a 'good' direction. But that in the current circumstances one wold need to see a trend over at least 6 months if not a year

BTW arent you in danger of sliding into a 'relativist' position with all these 'quotation marks'?, ..., best be carefull or you'll get drummed out of the 'liberal-baiting society'

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

They will be killing each other whether we're there or not. The disputes between the different sects have gone on for centuries. This is a continuation of such.

I only argue that it's not a good measure of 'good' or 'bad'. Whether or not it's worthy of ending is a different story, and I believe that's our intent still, at the moment.

Yet they were co-existing peacefully until we invaded Iraq. Go figure.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Yet they were co-existing peacefully until we invaded Iraq. Go figure.

I'm not speaking specifically of Iraq. I'm talking about the ME as a whole.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm not speaking specifically of Iraq. I'm talking about the ME as a whole.

I am talking both in Iraq and the middle east as a whole. Show me any fighting between the two sects? People claim "OMG they hate each other and fight all the time" but can you even tell me when an actual fight took place?

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm not speaking specifically of Iraq. I'm talking about the ME as a whole.

There was a war in the ME before we invaded? Where?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

There was a war in the ME before we invaded? Where?

I got this one....

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

There was a war in the ME before we invaded? Where?

War? No...fighting? All the time.

Wasn't it just recently that the Palestinians were fighting amongst themselves? Hamas didn't like Fatah or something, so they started killing each other.

And Syrians and the Lebanese have been killing each other the past decade.

I have no doubt there are countless others. These are just from a 5 min memory check.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

War? No...fighting? All the time.

Wasn't it just recently that the Palestinians were fighting amongst themselves? Hamas didn't like Fatah or something, so they started killing each other.

And Syrians and the Lebanese have been killing each other the past decade.

I have no doubt there are countless others. These are just from a 5 min memory check.

Hamas is being funded by A shiite Iran who wants to form a Shiite crescent with itself at the head. Iran funds organizations such as Hamas and even Hezbollah to wage its Religious/political war against Israel. Fatah, on the other hand is not all Muslim. It is literally just the Palistinian Liberation Army. These are Palestinians who want their land back and they are fighting more so for political/ethnic and land based reasons than religious reasons. There are many Druse and even Christian Palestinians who are part of Fatah and who wish to see Israel fall.



Here is a poster calling on Fatah Christians to, in essence, become martyrs in the struggle for Palestinian nationalism.

It reads: In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit John 11:25 "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies"

Hamas is more so an Islamist movement than Fatah is and Fatah is protesting Hamas victory in government by presenting itself as an opposition party.

[SoFlaJDM]

EVEN MORE GOOD NEWS!!!



funny... looks like terror attacks have gone up by more than 600%... great news!!

source: MIPT Terrorism Knowledge Base (TKB)

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by JaJae

MSNBC Video


Finally these stories are getting aired. It only took a few years. This is good news in Iraq. The Iraqis in some of the worst areas are getting a taste of freedom and telling the US forces they don't want them to leave.

If this story builds, it will be interesting how and if it affects government policy.

This isn't necessarily good news, they are playing possum and will soon rise again.

For more deaths, more ethnic killings, more attacks, and more bombings.

[ballz2wallz]

Baghdad security crackdown seriously curbs killings of US soldiers

MIL-IRAQ-US SOLDIERS
Baghdad security crackdown seriously curbs killings of US soldiers

BAGHDAD, March 14 (KUNA) -- The rate of killings of US troops in Iraq has been on the decline, down by 60 percent, since the launch of the new security measures in Baghdad, according to statistics revealed by the Multi-National Force -Iraq Combined Press Information Centre.

Only 17 members of the US military in Iraq have been killed since February 14 till March 13, compared to 42 from January 13 to February 13; the rate was on the decline during the first month of the security crackdown, compared to a month before.

Two of the 17 soldiers died at US Baghdad camps of non-combat causes.

The remarkable decrease in killings among the US troops came at a time when more of these troops were deployed in the Iraqi capital, especially in districts previously regarded as extremely hazardous for them such as Al-Sadr City, Al-Azamiyah, and Al-Doura.

Meanwhile, US attacks on insurgent strongholds north of Baghdad curbed attacks against helicopters. Before the new security plan, many such craft were downed leaving 20 soldiers dead.

The US army in Iraq had earlier said that sectarian fighting and violence in Baghdad had dropped sharply, by about 80 percent, since the launch of the plan.

The statistics excluded US troops killed in other governorates such as Al-Anbar, Diyala, and Salahiddin.

As to the latest human losses, the US army announced Wednesday that two American soldiers had been killed, one in southern Baghdad and the other northeast of the capital.(end) ahh.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.as...en&DSNO=961365

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Kuna site|Story page|Baghdad security crackdown seriously curbs killing...3/14/2007

funny, I remember a few car bombings that killed hundreds of civilians, and an increase in violence overall.


good news on the slight decline of deaths though.

[grembert]

The surge might actually work, and that news should not be overlooked in Congress. It would be a great victory for Bush if the violence stays down, and will or should change the dynamics of what happens in Congress.

[Thorgrim]

The "surge" has "worked" before...in the summer of 06 there was a decline in violence, the numbers and system couldn't be maintained and as soon as they lifted a finger the violence went back to 100%

Remember the Sunnis and Shias aren't gaining tactical ground or anything like this...its revenge killings in a culture that puts avenging family members above all others...they have patience, all we are doing is putting off the inevitable in many situations

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

good news on the slight decline of deaths though.

60%

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

The "surge" has "worked" before...in the summer of 06 there was a decline in violence, the numbers and system couldn't be maintained and as soon as they lifted a finger the violence went back to 100%

Remember the Sunnis and Shias aren't gaining tactical ground or anything like this...its revenge killings in a culture that puts avenging family members above all others...they have patience, all we are doing is putting off the inevitable in many situations

I will meet you half way and be cautiously optimistic. But you are right, we need to see this last.......

[ballz2wallz]

YouTube Video