Joe Biden tells it how it is VID

Scrum · 03-15-2007, 09:46 AM

YouTube Video

This man has some impressive testicles.

I'm glad someone is saying this. Too bad so few people will see it.

DosEquis · 03-15-2007, 10:41 AM

Pulled out the ole Tim Ryan card

JaJae · 03-15-2007, 10:54 AM

Interesting..

The Times reported the 2004 presidential nominee’s “fellow Democrats” were fearful that “the latest evolution of Mr. Kerry’s views on Iraq may now complicate their hopes of taking back a majority in Congress in 2006.”…

Said Biden of Kerry’s proposal back then: “Setting a date is not a plan.'’ Added Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., ‘’If the argument comes down to, ‘Is it one year or 18 months,’ I think we’re going to confuse people. I’m not sure what the value is; I think it hurts us rather than helps.'’

Very good speech though. Lots of anger and passion.

SoFlaJDM · 03-15-2007, 11:06 AM

saw it live yesterday... i was dancing around as he was at the podium

DosEquis · 03-15-2007, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Interesting..

Very good speech though. Lots of anger and passion.

I think the conditions in Iraq in 2004 were significantly different than they are in 2006. It is nice that he can change his view on the situation, change his plan on the situation, as the situation changes and requires different a different approach.

As Colbert put it regarding the president "You know where he stands. He thinks the same thing on Wednesday as he did on Monday, regardless of what happens on Tuesday."

Roonie · 03-15-2007, 11:57 AM

that was a great speech. Does it fall on deaf ears?? The majority of Americans would agree with it as most seem upset with the Iraq war and how it is being handled currently.

6SpeedTA95 · 03-15-2007, 12:30 PM

I think most of us agree the war hasn't been handled properly but a lot of us disagree on how to proceed

JaJae · 03-15-2007, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I think the conditions in Iraq in 2004 were significantly different than they are in 2006. It is nice that he can change his view on the situation, change his plan on the situation, as the situation changes and requires different a different approach.

As Colbert put it regarding the president "You know where he stands. He thinks the same thing on Wednesday as he did on Monday, regardless of what happens on Tuesday."

The notion of setting a date not being a plan doesn't change regardless of what happens in between.

He is ranting and raving (literally) about needing a policy/plan and strongly hinting towards a date. He previously has stated setting a date isn't a plan. Having arbitrary dates still hurts us more than it helps us. What has happened in Iraq that has changed that? Time surely hasn't.

DosEquis · 03-15-2007, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Roonie

that was a great speech. Does it fall on deaf ears?? The majority of Americans would agree with it as most seem upset with the Iraq war and how it is being handled currently.

A problem arises when people bring up slogans or buzz words like "slow bleed" and "cut and run" or "defeatocrat". They will shit on him because he plagiarized parts of a speech 15 years ago, then label his idea as slow bleed, cut and run, and bring up other unrelated things to try to discredit anything he is saying.

I will concede that there are some democrats who say we must leave immediately, cut funding, and gtfo and I will say that it is not a good idea. The party has many ideas that go from leave immediately to supporting the presidents "surge" in troops. To try to shit on the democratic party they will select the ideas that some democrats came up with, the ones they like the least, and then say those ideas apply to the entire party.

Our style government is intended to spur debate. From debate and arguing the best solution usually comes out. To me it looks like the democrats are a party of independent thinkers, granted some of them are stupid thinkers, but they still appear to think on their own. They do not have "the decider" to tell them what is going to happen and just sign off on it.

Pro Street · 03-15-2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Interesting..

Very good speech though. Lots of anger and passion.

wow, comparing the situation in 2004 to 2007.. that's one hell of a reach

Pro Street · 03-15-2007, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

The notion of setting a date not being a plan doesn't change regardless of what happens in between.

He is ranting and raving (literally) about needing a policy/plan and strongly hinting towards a date. He previously has stated setting a date isn't a plan. Having arbitrary dates still hurts us more than it helps us. What has happened in Iraq that has changed that? Time surely hasn't.

Again, this was 3 years ago. less than 2 years from the outset of the war. That was before it became a civil war, and before many things had happened. It was before the elections were held. It was before Sadr wanted to get into the political part of the Iraqi Government (people still don't realize he supports the US... which is ironic)

honestly you're grasping at straws, the picture back then was completely different.

JaJae · 03-15-2007, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

wow, comparing the situation in 2004 to 2007.. that's one hell of a reach

The only person comparing to 2004 is you.

RMNIXON · 03-15-2007, 01:42 PM

Screaming that we have no policy is not true. If we had no policy they would not be working so hard to stop it! But I do give him points for this. He just moved the marker for a tough anti-war stance by the presidential candidates up a few levels. What say you Hillary and Obama?

Scrum · 03-15-2007, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

The only person comparing to 2004 is you.

He said it in 2006 and his statement stands.

Setting a date isn't, by itself, a plan. I haven't heard Biden go back on that point.

Pro Street · 03-15-2007, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

The only person comparing to 2004 is you.

Joe Biden tells it how it is *VID*

what is this from? You didn't even link a source, and it appears to be from around 2004.

DosEquis · 03-15-2007, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

The only person comparing to 2004 is you.

You compared his statement from 2004 to the stuff he said in the video in a manner to imply that biden is doing some sort of flip flop. Biden addresses what is different today that is influencing his policy ideas in the video. You brought up 2004 by bringing in his statement from 2004, regarding how he felt Iraq should be handled in 2004, before the civil war that we see today.

Scrum · 03-15-2007, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Screaming that we have no policy is not true. If we had no policy they would not be working so hard to stop it!

Good point. We do have a policy, it just isn't working so it's easy to forget it.

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

But I do give him points for this. He just moved the marker for a tough anti-war stance by the presidential candidates up a few levels. What say you Hillary and Obama?

Unfortunately many people will never hear about this or really care that much.

Hillary and Obama should be taking notes from this guy.

Scrum · 03-15-2007, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

Joe Biden tells it how it is *VID*

what is this from? You didn't even link a source, and it appears to be from around 2004.

Originally Posted by DosEquis

You compared his statement from 2004 to the stuff he said in the video in a manner to imply that biden is doing some sort of flip flop. Biden addresses what is different today that is influencing his policy ideas in the video. You brought up 2004 by bringing in his statement from 2004, regarding how he felt Iraq should be handled in 2004, before the civil war that we see today.

I found the quote and it was from '06, but I don't think that changes anything. It was a one line quote.

"Setting a time table is not a plan."

That's correct and I never heard him deviate from that.

JaJae · 03-15-2007, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

Joe Biden tells it how it is *VID*

what is this from? You didn't even link a source, and it appears to be from around 2004.

It cites itself.

Also:
Senator Biden on CNN Situation Room

And, up to now, all the president has said is, we have a unity government. And it's up to the Iraqis. They will get the job done.

Maybe this trip to Iraq means that he's going and saying, look, folks, you have got to be resolute in bringing down the militias. You have got to be resolute in including the Sunnis, no if, ands, or buts. And we will help you keep the neighbors out.

If he's doing those three things, that's a plan. That's a plan how we can get our forces out by the end of next year and leave a stable government behind.

Bush did those things. Did he take Biden's advice? Doubtful but he followed Biden's "plan" to a T. Yet here Biden is saying Bush hasn't shown a plan. What gives? Just more of the typical "Bush has no plan" rhetoric from the left despite the clearly hypocritical views.

Scrum · 03-15-2007, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

It cites itself.

Also:
Senator Biden on CNN Situation Room

Bush did those things. Did he take Biden's advice? Doubtful but he followed Biden's "plan" to a T. Yet here Biden is saying Bush hasn't shown a plan. What gives? Just more of the typical "Bush has no plan" rhetoric from the left despite the clearly hypocritical views.

Umm no. He did not follow Bidens plan at all.

Biden has been calling for us to divide the country into three "states" with a federal government controlling them. We are supposed to pull back to the borders and keep foreign interests from affecting things. We aren't doing those things.