Iraqis: life is getting better

[ballz2wallz]

This is the news I've been waiting for!

MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.

One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.

Only 27% think there is a civil war in Iraq, compared with 61% who do not, according to the survey carried out last month.

By a majority of two to one, Iraqis believe military operations now under way will disarm all militias. More than half say security will improve after a withdrawal of multinational forces.

Margaret Beckett, the foreign secretary, said the findings pointed to progress. “There is no widespread violence in the four southern provinces and the fact that the picture is more complex than the stereotype usually portrayed is reflected in today’s poll,” she said.

I believe there are many who claim it was better under Saddam. It's time to kiss that notion goodbye!

[Thorgrim]

Well then on this trajectory we should be able to leave by 2008, go democrats

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Well then on this trajectory we should be able to leave by 2008, go democrats

What did the Dems have to do with this?

And their plan is the opposite. Leave if things get worse, not better.

[Diamond Cross]

You know the game of partisan politics. Rule number 2: take credit for every success there is away from the other party. It just makes you look good.

[Diamond Cross]

This is a success for President Bush, unfortunately.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

What did the Dems have to do with this?

And their plan is the opposite. Leave if things get worse, not better.

I don't remember that particular legislation being passed

Ofcourse the Democrats get almost all credit for any improvements since Nov 2006...since then the Democrats have been in power and the Iraqis knew they had to act now or the Democrats would cut funds if it went nowhere

The GOP had total control from 2003-Jan2007...they get the credit for that mess, any improvements afterwards due to Iraqis moving their butts thanks to Democratic prodding...get Democratic credit

[smokie700]

oh please, that has been your latest reply to damn near everything iraq related lately. "Where was the legislation? Where was the legislation?" you have made plenty of threads talking about how bad it is in iraq or how the GOP's plan isn't working. Now that the Libs's plan are not getting passed and some of them are just plan freakin nuts your reply for it is "nothing has been passed"

I for one am glad that these kind of reports are coming out. Hopefully we can get our troops out sooner. However we should not leave until the country is stable.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by smokie700

However we should not leave until the country is stable.

Curious, we talking ten years, hundred years, a thousand?

[smokie700]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Curious, we talking ten years, hundred years, a thousand?

certainly not right now. maybe by 2008 maybe not maybe 2010, maybe not. that decision to pull out needs to be continuously evaluated and decided upon at the time. We can't say that we will leave on this date no matter what, that is not how it works.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by smokie700

certainly not right now. maybe by 2008 maybe not maybe 2010, maybe not. that decision to pull out needs to be continuously evaluated and decided upon at the time. We can't say that we will leave on this date no matter what, that is not how it works.

So all our reserves and national guard in Iraq for the next 1000 years, thats a viable solution for you, despite the fact that generals are saying the army is either broken or at the breaking point?

[smokie700]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

So all our reserves and national guard in Iraq for the next 1000 years, thats a viable solution for you, despite the fact that generals are saying the army is either broken or at the breaking point?

Let's see hmm, What branch of military do you serve in? How much knowledge of military deployments do you have? How many people do you talk to or serve with on a regular basis?

Our national guard and reserves are part of the US armed forces. When you sign the contract you are told very clearly that you can be called to active duty. You also seem to have forgotten about our active duty troops that are serving. As it is right now most Guard units are serving 1 rotation every 5 years. (there are exceptions) That rotation cycle is hardly enough to break the troops but it does make life a bit inconvenient.

I think the deployment rotation is high but not enough to say we have a broken army. Also nobody is mentioning the fact that the military is pulling shorter rotations that in other conflicts. Nam was a 2 year tour.

Nice how you throw out a huge number like 1000 years. I'm pretty sure that we will be gone long before then but if not then im sure there will be a good reason. You seem to confuse the fact that I support the war with meaning I want troops there forever. I want my brothers in arms back home but i do not want them to leave until it is determined to be the proper time. As it stands that decision is up to the president.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by smokie700

I for one am glad that these kind of reports are coming out. Hopefully we can get our troops out sooner. However we should not leave until the country is stable.

Exactly; those that want the troops home should want stories like this even more. They should want success in Iraq, cause it only means the end is closer.

[Thorgrim]

I didn't say forever, I said 1000...

The Military is "rapidly degenerating into a broken force”
-Current Chief Commander of the Army Reserve
Gen. James R. Helmly

Ofcourse let's not even get into retired generals:
"about broken" -Gen. Powell
and others that go on with the same talk

But you know so much more about the state of our military in Iraq than these guys?

[motivez]

Cool, I'm glad they think so.

Now lets see them step up and fight for that better life instead of making the US military forces do the vast majority of the work.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

This is the news I've been waiting for!



I believe there are many who claim it was better under Saddam. It's time to kiss that notion goodbye!

If we have to define "success" by measuring against a brutal dictator that doesn't say much. Also, what is the methodology? I bet it was mainly Shia that were asked. The minority Sunni's were rulers of the country under Saddam, oppressing the majority Shia, now that they have ruling majority I can see how they are optimistic, but that does not mean things are better, holding the sword is better than not holding it - they are still headed down the suicidal path (of both groups destroying each other for control).

I mean seriously, 1 in 4 iraqi families had someone in their family murdered is not something we should feel proud of, that seems like lawlessness to me and a mass exodus when coupled with the millions of educated Iraqi's who have already left. I'm sure if we held and opinion poll of the Iraqi's who had the means to leave it would paint a much different picture.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Exactly; those that want the troops home should want stories like this even more. They should want success in Iraq, cause it only means the end is closer.

NO DUH!

and the same should be true for the Iraq people who want us out right?


But that does not leave us with a humility driven failure that hurts Bush and Republicans in the long run. Perhaps that is a far more important goal than a victory for our troops, the non-violent Iraq people, and our war effort in general.....

Don't you get the very vocal people who think we provoked the war on terror? We need the lesson? We need to be brought down to size and fail? They don't fear another Vietnam, they want it with every fiber of their being, and they don't mind using people and those in the media who really do care.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

So all our reserves and national guard in Iraq for the next 1000 years, thats a viable solution for you, despite the fact that generals are saying the army is either broken or at the breaking point?

"The US military commander in Iraq says there are grounds for optimism over the latest security drive.


Gen David Petraeus told the BBC that with two out of the five extra brigades now on the ground in Iraq, there had been fewer sectarian attacks. He said he would have an idea of the chance of success once all extra troops were deployed in the coming months."

BBC NEWS | Middle East | US general upbeat on Iraq 'surge'


Yeah, they are coming apart alrighty and all the General say so....

[Thorgrim]

We already failed in Iraq, the American people threw out the Republicans and put in Democrats and now we're seeing progress in some areas, more than usual

I find it odd that one thread the Democrats now "own" the Iraq war and have to fix everything, any failure is partially theres...yet any move in the positive direction, they get no credit

To be clear, I believe we are experiencing positive short term progress, because the militias and insurgents are regrouping, we are not eliminating them, and the Iraqis realize with a democratic congress their time is limited and are pushing harder to succeed, if we pass our bill that is being formulated, they will be pushed ever harder to succeed, and you can all thank the Democrats if we do end up making more progress

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

"The US military commander in Iraq says there are grounds for optimism over the latest security drive.


Gen David Petraeus told the BBC that with two out of the five extra brigades now on the ground in Iraq, there had been fewer sectarian attacks. He said he would have an idea of the chance of success once all extra troops were deployed in the coming months."

BBC NEWS | Middle East | US general upbeat on Iraq 'surge'


Yeah, they are coming apart alrighty and all the General say so....

Fewer SECTARIAN attacks, and is that because we defeated the rival militias slaughtering civilians? No, its because they are waiting, they have all the time in the world, things are still falling apart, just more slowly now

Many militias death squad leaders fear if the US leaves under Democratic pressure, they won't be able to hide under them like they have been, so temporarily halting, again thank the Democrats

[smokie700]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

We already failed in Iraq, the American people threw out the Republicans and put in Democrats and now we're seeing progress in some areas, more than usual

I find it odd that one thread the Democrats now "own" the Iraq war and have to fix everything, any failure is partially theres...yet any move in the positive direction, they get no credit

To be clear, I believe we are experiencing positive short term progress, because the militias and insurgents are regrouping, we are not eliminating them, and the Iraqis realize with a democratic congress their time is limited and are pushing harder to succeed, if we pass our bill that is being formulated, they will be pushed ever harder to succeed, and you can all thank the Democrats if we do end up making more progress

They aren't getting credit for the good news because they haven't done shit except talk up a storm. Tell me exactly what have they done that that is the reason for the better news coming from there?