Pessimism 'growing among Iraqis'

David Octavius · 03-19-2007, 12:09 PM

The only reason I am doing this is to show that for every poll that may show something positive, there are just as many that show something negative. The only thing that can be learned from this is that no one really knows what is going on and we don't know how to measure success - so how do we achieve victory under these constraints? I think its a fair question.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Pessimism 'growing among Iraqis'

Some highlights:

"Less than 40% of those polled said things were good in their lives, compared to 71% two years ago."

"However, a majority of those questioned said that, despite daily violence, they did not believe Iraq was in a state of civil war."

"Only 18% said they had confidence in US and coalition troops, and 51% said they thought attacks on coalition forces were justified."

"Asked now whether they thought reconstruction efforts in Iraq had been effective, some 67% said they felt they had not."

"And just 38% said the situation in the country was better than before the 2003 war, while 50% said it was worse."

Bob the Goat · 03-22-2007, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

The only reason I am doing this is to show that for every poll that may show something positive, there are just as many that show something negative. The only thing that can be learned from this is that no one really knows what is going on and we don't know how to measure success - so how do we achieve victory under these constraints? I think its a fair question.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Pessimism 'growing among Iraqis'

Some highlights:

"Less than 40% of those polled said things were good in their lives, compared to 71% two years ago."

"However, a majority of those questioned said that, despite daily violence, they did not believe Iraq was in a state of civil war."

"Only 18% said they had confidence in US and coalition troops, and 51% said they thought attacks on coalition forces were justified."

"Asked now whether they thought reconstruction efforts in Iraq had been effective, some 67% said they felt they had not."

"And just 38% said the situation in the country was better than before the 2003 war, while 50% said it was worse."

The stats you use are from Iraqis themselves. I guess if your country was invaded because you had a nasty dictator, initially unelected, (Florida chads), whose weapons of mass destruction were real, (not a fiction as in Iraq) and the majority of the world and the UN declared the invasion illegal and the invaders attempted to force a foreign system on your american culture; you wouldn't be too pleased either. If one in four american civilian
families suffered a death due to the invaders, you wouldn't welcome them with open arms. Sixty five years ago the nazi's were known to retaliate against civilians at a ratio of ten to one, (ten civilians for each german soldier shot by resistance) and now, in Iraq alone, (thousands more in Afghanistan), approx. 65000 CIVILIANS have been killed since the illegal american invasion. Ostensibly many americans still justify the Iraq invasion based on a specious connection with 9/11. 9/11 produced 2973 civilian deaths, George Bush has delivered a 23 to 1 ratio of revenge against civilians in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. It surprises me that Americans generally fail to see or understand why they are despised globally. The product, democracy, that you're attempting to foist on the world functions well for your greed and consumption but you are a nation of ghettos, race tension and extreme violence. You lead the world in imprisoning your own people. Good reasons to be suspicious of your version of democracy. Republican or Democrat seems to make little difference. Remember Lyndon Johnson, the Democrat, who escalated Vietnam from16,000 US troops in '63 to 550,000 US troops in 1968. And by the way, this month March is notable for American occasions: March 16 1968:The My Lai Massacre of hundreds of civilian villagers in Vietnam by American troops.
March 20 2003:The illegal invasion of Iraq by the United States of America. Based on fabrications promoted by President, George W. Bush.
March 4 2007 A minimum of 16 Afghani civilians killed and 35 wounded as US troops go on a rampage, pulling entire families over and shooting them in their vehicles.
March 16 2007: Five Afghani police officers shot and killed by US troops. etc. etc. etc.
If anyone invaded your country and acted exactly as you act, you and your countrymen would be horrified, angered, and go on a rampage. Your new christian Dominionists would probably opt for suicide bombings or some similar desperate sacrifice for their families and country.

Seventy thousand civilians dead. And all that blood is on the hands of each of your taxpayers. Someday when your empire falls as they all do, you'll see your immorality and error. But it will be too late; the time you could have helped a chaotic world with your wealth and education will be past. And as in the natural cycle of empires you will taste your own so called "justice".

So, to sum up, I'm not surprised that common people in Iraq despise and fear you and your system. I'm also not surprised that US spin doctors try to tell you another version...a version that expiates the shame that should prevail across the face of your nation.

In Canada we are receiving more of your deserters on a daily basis. We tend to welcome them as they represent the most intelligent and ethical beings America has to offer. A great loss to a powerful nation of barbarians.
A substantial gain for Canada and the world.

ballz2wallz · 03-22-2007, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Bob the Goat

In Canada we are receiving more of your deserters on a daily basis. We tend to welcome them as they represent the most intelligent and ethical beings America has to offer. A great loss to a powerful nation of barbarians.
A substantial gain for Canada and the world.

Linzyhop · 03-22-2007, 11:35 AM

In Canada we are receiving more of your deserters on a daily basis. We tend to welcome them as they represent the most intelligent and ethical beings America has to offer. A great loss to a powerful nation of barbarians.
A substantial gain for Canada and the world.

I agreed with your point up to the last paragraph. god, like you have any more control over your government then we do as a citizen. Canada Canada Canada. don't forget your freaking maple leaf when you leave the country. god forbid someone think you're American.

forgive me, I'm just so innately barbaric I can't help myself.

if you want to take the deserters, so right ahead. if they volunteered (yeah, volunteered since this is 2007 and the draft hasn't been reinstated) and decided "you know what, I don't think i want to do this anymore, so I'm going to run to Canada to avoid be arrested for deserting something I committed myself to... lalalallala".

my dad was in the army during Vietnam, half a dozen of my uncles were as well. my grandfather fought in the Pacific during WWII and they all followed through with their time commitments. If people join the military in this day and age and decide later to desert, I would call that quitting. I wouldn't join the army because I know I wouldn't be able to hack it. I would quit, hence I'm not joining. I'm not a fighter, hell I can't even stand the sight of blood so I know I couldn't do it. Joining the military in any branch isn't a light decision, but it appears as though post 9/11 so many people ran to join, now they're regretting it. take them. maybe they'll marry your sister and then quit later when the marriage gets "hard".

avsp · 03-22-2007, 11:55 AM

the polls of iraqis a few years ago showed a great deal of optimisim for the future, which at the time i found surprising but heartening

the ever increasing sectarian divide that this & other recent polls of iraqi public opinion is disheartening

hopefully the consequences of the surge will encourage the iraqis to be more postive

comparing this to Northern Ireland means that its going to be at least ageneration before the 'peace people' get p*ssed off enough to actually effectively counter the bigots on a large scale, ..., there is possibly a lesson in intell penetration of para-militaries to be learnt as well