Johnson Closing Speech on Emergency War Supplemental

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

then the democrats should cut of funding today

They're giving Bush's unpopular plan a chance to work (it's remotely possible). They're giving time and funds to develop the ISF even more. They're putting in conditions that Iraq must meet.


and thomez... this isn't the revolutionary war.. the US is a secondary target in the attacks.

[grembert]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

They're giving Bush's unpopular plan a chance to work (it's remotely possible). They're giving time and funds to develop the ISF even more. They're putting in conditions that Iraq must meet.


and thomez... this isn't the revolutionary war.. the US is a secondary target in the attacks.

This is a good point. We are a " secondary target " and that fact gets lost in the overall Iraq debate.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

then the democrats should cut of funding today

I agree, because I do not believe we have the will to get the current objectives realized.

We either need to redefine success, or bring the troops home.

[Pro Street]

When I want something done, I set a deadline.


If I don't give a deadline, those responsible will take their time and not be motivated.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

They're giving Bush's unpopular plan a chance to work (it's remotely possible). They're giving time and funds to develop the ISF even more. They're putting in conditions that Iraq must meet.


and thomez... this isn't the revolutionary war.. the US is a secondary target in the attacks.

It doesn't matter if we are the primary or the secondary target, the strategy for those against the US in Iraq is the same as that against Britian in the Revolution. Inexpensive guerilla attacks on a regular basis will always outlast the political will and public patience of the giant with the proper military. It is especially true in Iraq, where a suicide bomber is willing to lose his own life to end those of 20 others, and there are lines of people willing to do the same day in and day out. No nation can muster the political will necessary to outlast such manuevers. That's why it was a terrible idea to begin with and a war that we could not win. That's why they said it would take 500k men and women on the ground to keep an insurgency in check. And that's why when George Herbert Walker Bush assessed the same nation and the same problems, he decided that it wasn't wise to put himself in the position we are in now. Americans do not have the patience to see this fight through, especially when they have been presented with little or nothing to gain and seemingly lots to lose.

[Diamond Cross]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

yes it does when they could undermine the mission

Combat does not matter in the court of public opinion. The public doesn't look at combat except for the "oh my God they killed my son".

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

yes it does when they could undermine the mission

sorry, I missed this.

what's the mission the set pullout date is undermining?

[grembert]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Combat does not matter in the court of public opinion. The public doesn't look at combat except for the "oh my God they killed my son".

It is reasonable for Americans to be concerned about the rising death toll in Iraq when there doesn't seem to be an end in sight..... It puzzles me that some people think that fighting in Iraq is like defending the Alamo, without looking at the bigger picture of the conflicts there that have gone on for centuries.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by grembert

It is reasonable for Americans to be concerned about the rising death toll in Iraq when there doesn't seem to be an end in sight..... It puzzles me that some people think that fighting in Iraq is like defending the Alamo, without looking at the bigger picture of the conflicts there that have gone on for centuries.

no, again the problem is that the US is a secondary target. We're not fighting an enemy here, two groups are fighting each other, and we're in the crossfire.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Combat does not matter in the court of public opinion. The public doesn't look at combat except for the "oh my God they killed my son".

I disagree look at the difference in public opinion of combat during WWII, vietnam, the first gulf war, the start of the second gulf war, and today

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I disagree look at the difference in public opinion of combat during WWII, vietnam, the first gulf war, the start of the second gulf war, and today

WWII - fight against a dictatorship that had taken over Europe and was close to our borders, as well as Japan who attacked us

Vietnam - we fought there over a small squad of French who were killed

Gulf War I - Kuwait drilled into Iraq territory, we invaded based on UN consensus. We did our job, then left.

Gulf War II - We had intel (now false) that Saddam had WMD. No intel. No postwar plan.

Now we're in the middle of a civil war because of horrible postwar planning, 3 years of "stay the course," Bush firing generals that disagreed with him, no oversight of reconstruction contracts, scandals, and no end in sight.

No goals
No deadlines
No change

And the kicker is the complete and total lack of cooperation to take the advice from anyone outside the Bush Administration.

You have not even addressed that fact even though I've stated it to you several times.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

You have not even addressed that fact even though I've stated it to you several times.

my point was that support for war comes and goes, the general public was very upset about Iwo Jima when it happened.


Do you not agree that the bush admin has changed its tune in the past few months?

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

my point was that support for war comes and goes, the general public was very upset about Iwo Jima when it happened.


Do you not agree that the bush admin has changed its tune in the past few months?

No, I don't agree.

The BA has gone against the Generals in terms of the surge.
The BA has ignored the vast majority of the ISG
The BA has publicly labeled the Democrats as defeatists, terror supporters, and appeasers
The BA has touted bipartisanship, and yet has not once outstretched their arm in compromise





No, the BA has done nothing over the past few months. If anything, they have done just the opposite.


Bush has done so much manipulation, "deciding," insulting, ignoring, and otherwise destroying the fabric of this country I would honestly cheer the day he is no longer in office.

This is funny because I fully supported him in 2002 and 2003.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

No, I don't agree.

The BA has gone against the Generals in terms of the surge.
The BA has ignored the vast majority of the ISG
The BA has publicly labeled the Democrats as defeatists, terror supporters, and appeasers
The BA has touted Bipartisanship, and yet has not once outstretched their arm in compromise



No, the BA has done nothing over the past few months. If anything, they have done just the opposite.

ok, im done here

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

ok, im done here

I'm sorry, but that's the truth.