Pelosi broke the law visiting Damascus

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

You're joking right?

No, it does not say against the President.


The Speaker cannot engage officially in foreign relations, but it is not a crime either, nor is a visit a crime.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

No, it does not say against the President.


The Speaker cannot engage officially in foreign relations, but it is not a crime either, nor is a visit a crime.

What exactly do you think 'without authority of the United States' means?

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What exactly do you think 'without authority of the United States' means?

The President is not the United States.

The President is not the "decider" as he proclaims.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

The President is not the United States.

The President is not the "decider" as he proclaims.

Which leads me back to the question:

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What exactly do you think 'without authority of the United States' means?

To me, the President, as elected by the people of the United States, represents those very same people, the United States. Especially when it comes to international affairs, where anything that goes wrong is immediately blamed on the President, as 'the buck stops here', or so the saying goes.

He may not be the decider, but to me he is the voice of the US with regards to the rest of the world.

But still, feel free to answer my previous question.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

But still, feel free to answer my previous question.

The people in charge of and who actually hold authority on international relations should be the ones who can decide who can say and do what. The legal definition is very vague and has never been used, but what else could it logically mean? Does Pelosi have the authority to grant herself the authority to be a diplomat for the US? I would surely hope not!

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Can Pelosi grant herself the "authority of the United States" to do what she did? I highly don't think so. The role of the Senate is very clear in the constitution. Their duties do not extend to allowing themselves to conduct international negotiations on their own and act in the interest of the US or foreign nations. Senators have a domestic role, not an international one. Nothing in Pelosi's job description gives her the authority of the united states to go off and do what she wants in Syria. And when the administration doesn't want her to go to me that's enough to say the United States didn't grant her authority to do what she did.

Maybe they should have informational congressional hearing as to her purpose and intent of going to Syria. Make her testify before Congress as to what she intended to do and what she did do despite being told not to. Every Democrat who knew she was going should have to turn over all their e-mails and records of her trip and they should determine what she did wrong by strong-arming people and threatening anyone who knew anything about her trip to the point where someone slips up trying to save someone else's name and gets charged with a bullshit crime. At least in this case there's evidence and an actual law that could be debated as being broken. It also seems a little more important than some appointed attorneys being as to resign. But hey, that's just me. But nobody would advocate such a thing because it would be a waste a time, a joke of our government and just plain stupid.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The people in charge of and who actually hold authority on international relations should be the ones who can decide who can say and do what. The constitutional definition is very vague and has never been used, but what else could it logically mean? Does Pelosi have the authority to grant herself the authority to be a diplomat for the US? I would surely hope not!



Can Pelosi grant herself the "authority of the United States" to do what she did. I highly don't think so. The role of the Senate is very clear in the constitution. Their duties do not extend to allowing themselves to conduct international negotiations on their own and act in the interest of the US or foreign nations. Senators have a domestic role, not an international one. Nothing in Pelosi's job description gives her the authority of the united states to go off and do what she wants in Syria. And when the administration doesn't want her to go to me that's enough to say the United States didn't grant her authority to do what she did.

Right, and I think the President and his administration are the ones in charge at the moment, and they made their feelings very clear.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Right, and I think the President and his administration are the ones in charge at the moment, and they made their feelings very clear.

the bush admin is 1 of 3 branches.

Pelosi is ABOVE Bush's Administration in rank.

The President is not the United States. He is a current executor. He is also not in charge of even CONSIDERING any charges as he does not have the power to.

She did not bring about any treaties, did not discuss any actual changes in foreign policy, and was not acting against the wishes of the United States.



The President serves at the leisure of the people. That should NEVER be forgotten.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

the bush admin is 1 of 3 branches.

Which branch gave her authority?

was not acting against the wishes of the United States.

No she was acting in her own interests, just as bad.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Which branch gave her authority?

She wasn't acting in an official capacity, no authority was needed.

No she was acting in her own interests, just as bad.

I think she's pretty much hit the pinnacle of her career, and honesty..a politician acting in their own interest? This is new to you?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

She wasn't acting in an official capacity, no authority was needed.


I think she's pretty much hit the pinnacle of her career, and honesty..a politician acting in their own interest? This is new to you?

After the magic she pulled bringing together unbelievably stubborn liberals and conservatives for the Iraq funding bill, I think it's safe to say it's just the beginning and she's nowhere near her pinnacle

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

After the magic she pulled...

Bribery and extortion goes a long way in politics. I don't know if it's something I'd call magic or give her positive credit for.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Bribery and extortion goes a long way in politics. I don't know if it's something I'd call magic or give her positive credit for.

It's a budget bill...by law they have spending in them

The relief spending was spread around evenly, many democrats and republicans whose districts would recieve money voted no, and many who would recieve nothing voted yes

Members were voted in to get money for their district, you call it bribery most call it representation...besides both perjoratives you use imply illegality, and there was nothing illegal about spending in a budget bill

The most "controversial" part was a couple million dollars (while we spent half a trillion in Iraq) to save thousands of farmers in georgia who WERE getting aid until just awhile ago...now they lost their GOP-given aid, they are facing increased fertilizer and fuel costs...thousands of family farms and tens of thousands of workers could lose their jobs if we don't act now

But why should we care, they're peanut farmers, they're not as worthy as oil executives getting their fancy subsidies the GOP made sure would last long beyond when they lost control...in fact...i mean farming families...are they even really American? Wouldn't a real American get a cooler job than that?

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Right, and I think the President and his administration are the ones in charge at the moment

Thats a hell of a bold and somewhat scary statement.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Thats a hell of a bold and somewhat scary statement.

The sad things is, Bush supporters really believe that.

[Thorgrim]

SPECTER: I believe that Assad can be negotiated with. I’ve made 14 trips there, Wolf, in the last two decades, and have been able to be helpful in a number of situations that I can document. And I think opening discussions with Syria are very, very important, and I’d rather Condoleezza Rice did it, but if not, it’s up to Speaker Pelosi and Arlen Specter and others

...

SPECTER: I believe in the maxim, hold your friends close and your enemies closer. President Ronald Reagan declared the Soviet Union to be the evil empire, and immediately thereafter undertook negotiations with them. Look, Assad is not a boy scout, but we have to deal with him. he’s there. In my conversation with him, I think there are ways to get him to stop arming Hezbollah and to stop arming Hamas. They came on the brink of a solution to the Golan Heights in 1995 and again in the year 2000. That was done by active negotiation that President Clinton engaged in. So there are ways to move through it, and to isolate them has not been successful.


Moderate Republicans and Democrats support Pelosi's decision, only people interested in scoring partisan political points seem to have tried to raise a fuss

[imind]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

You're joking right?

no, i'm not. show me where this 'authority' is defined. if this 'authority' is not defined, its a poorly written law.

What exactly do you think 'without authority of the United States' means?

well, i could offer up some opinion, but its irrelevant to the thread, and irrelevant to the law. the author, i'm sure, had somebody/office in mind and i'd like to know who that is. since it seems so obvious to you that its bush, please cite the law/decree/edict that names him so.

but lets assume for a second that 'somebody' is bush. did he forbid her from going?

[thomez]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Bribery and extortion goes a long way in politics. I don't know if it's something I'd call magic or give her positive credit for.

how could you call adding pork some kind of extortion?

extortion
2. Law. the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority.

did she obtain anything of personal value? did the bill send her a check?

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What exactly do you think 'without authority of the United States' means?

The Constitution which does not give her any such authority. It is Executive Branch authority.

I say IMPEACH!

[Thorgrim]

Actually, the President gave her authority through acquiesce:

Rep. Nick Rahall (D-WV), who traveled last week with Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) as part of her delegation to the Middle East, said this morning on C-Span that Pelosi told Bush of the trip to Syria a day before they left, and Bush did not object.

Rahall said, “The Speaker had met with President Bush in the halls of the U.S. Capitol just the day before we left and mentioned to him that we were going to Syria. No response at all from the President.”

Think Progress » Rahall: Pelosi Personally Told Bush Of Syria Trip And He Did Not Object

The guy on the phone in the video is EXACTLY like you right wingers (not an insult, he sounds normal and un-hysterical)

[Thorgrim]

Also GOP Speaker Hastert told Columbia to ignore Clinton's White House all together

Think Progress » FLASHBACK: Hastert Traveled Abroad, Told Foreign Leaders Not To Listen To Clinton

GOP Speaker Newt Gingrich went around Clinton to conduct talks with Communist China

http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/...ich-Pelosi.wmv