Can anyone explain why they support partial-birth abortions?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by 7960

Women who get late term abortions get them (for the most part) because of their health of the baby's. IMO banning late term abortions wouldn't be a good idea. These are women who decided to have a baby and (again, for the most part) can't continue the pregnancy.

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Originally Posted by Roonie

I think IMO they should ban late term abortions except when mothers life is in danger.

I agree.

I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

But isn't this procedure used mostly on late-term pregnancies?

Yes, but it is not done simply because the mother doesn't want the fetus anymore. It is normally done due to severe fetal abnormalities.

There are other procedures for late term abortion such as dismembering the fetus inside of the uterus. Why isn't that procedure being banned? It isn't any less "barbaric" than a "partial birth abortion".

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by 03 white zx3

Yes, but it is not done simply because the mother doesn't want the fetus anymore. It is normally done due to severe fetal abnormalities.

There are other procedures for late term abortion such as dismembering the fetus inside of the uterus. Why isn't that procedure being banned? It isn't any less "barbaric" than a "partial birth abortion".

Soon it will be

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Soon it will be

I certainly hope not. Should something happen to me right now, or should I find out my son is severely deformed or will not live upon birth, I want the safe and legal option to terminate my pregnancy. It is not up to you or anyone else (besides possibly my husband and my doctor) to make that decision for me.

[7960]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about

Because you're limiting it to the mother, and because you want to ban one procedure because you "don't like it" even though it may be the best as determined by her doctor and because it seems you wouldn't be sad if it was eventually banned altogether.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by 7960

Because you're limiting it to the mother,

Should I include the father?

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by 03 white zx3

I certainly hope not. Should something happen to me right now, or should I find out my son is severely deformed or will not live upon birth, I want the safe and legal option to terminate my pregnancy. It is not up to you or anyone else (besides possibly my husband and my doctor) to make that decision for me.

All severe deformities can be detected early especially if they take an amniotic sample. Also I found these reasons as why late term abortions happen in Wikipedia all of which I disagree with except the very last one........

Reasons commonly given for having a late-term abortion include:

• A deteriorating financial situation
• A change in relationship with the father
• A lack of awareness of the pregnancy until its later stages
• Discovery of the pregnancy by others who persuade an abortion, for example, the parents of a minor
• Inability to have an abortion earlier in the pregnancy (possibly due to a lack of funds, lack of transportation, or a legal restriction)
• Discovery of a fetal abnormality, undetectable earlier in the pregnancy
• The pregnancy becomes a risk to the mother's life or health

There is very little data on how common each of these reasons are. In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women who were at abortion clinics procuring abortions. Of the 1,900, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a menu of reasons why they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. Two percent (2%) said "a fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy." 71% responded "did not recognize that she was pregnant or misjudged gestation," 48% said "found it hard to make arrangements," and 33% said "was afraid to tell her partner or parents." The report did not indicate that any of the 420 abortions after 16 weeks were performed because of maternal health problems.[1]

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

What did I misread? I think partial birth abortion ban's are an irresponsible and underhanded method of pursuing a larger, currently unpopular, agenda to ban abortion (or atleast for some, late term abortion).

So when the same argument is used on the subject of gun control, that any laws further the agenda of those who would ban all guns against Constitutional protection, you would also accept that argument? Because I have yet to find a liberal who does. The intent of the law is not the same as the intent of some who support it.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Roonie

• The pregnancy becomes a risk to the mother's life or health

I certainly have no problem with the life risk exception. The Health risk is another matter. The simple fact is that every pregnancy is a health risk. So any laws covering health need to be more specific.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Roonie

The report did not indicate that any of the 420 abortions after 16 weeks were performed because of maternal health problems.[1]

This is a surprise?

That's like going to a doctor's office and looking for people having a heart attack. You don't schedule an appt at a clinic if there's something wrong with the baby. It gets done at the doc's office when the doctor tells her about the medical issue with the baby or her.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by thomez

because to be consistent with a pro-choice view, I believe that until a baby is born and is completely outside of the womb, it is a piece of the mother's body that she can do with what she pleases. Any other way of determining the "correct" timetable to abort a fetus is too arbitrary.

Born Vs not is probably more arbitrary, it is just an easy line.

Originally Posted by Roonie

All severe deformities can be detected early especially if they take an amniotic sample. Also I found these reasons as why late term abortions happen in Wikipedia all of which I disagree with except the very last one........

Reasons commonly given for having a late-term abortion include:

• A deteriorating financial situation
• A change in relationship with the father
• A lack of awareness of the pregnancy until its later stages
• Discovery of the pregnancy by others who persuade an abortion, for example, the parents of a minor
• Inability to have an abortion earlier in the pregnancy (possibly due to a lack of funds, lack of transportation, or a legal restriction)
• Discovery of a fetal abnormality, undetectable earlier in the pregnancy
• The pregnancy becomes a risk to the mother's life or health

There is very little data on how common each of these reasons are. In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women who were at abortion clinics procuring abortions. Of the 1,900, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a menu of reasons why they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. Two percent (2%) said "a fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy." 71% responded "did not recognize that she was pregnant or misjudged gestation," 48% said "found it hard to make arrangements," and 33% said "was afraid to tell her partner or parents." The report did not indicate that any of the 420 abortions after 16 weeks were performed because of maternal health problems.[1]

Amniocentesis is not routinely done unless you are over 35 or are high risk. It is not even covered by insurance if you are not high risk. Even tests like the AFP test are not routinely done unless requested (I personally requested one at 17 weeks). Most women find out their fetus has abnormalities at their 20 week level 2 ultrasound, well into their pregnancies. It can take weeks after that to have an amnio and more testing done to figure out exactly what is wrong with the fetus.

I agree with you that the only reason to be acceptable for late term abortion is the last one (fetal abnormalities). It is disgusting that it is done for any other reason and should not be acceptable.

7960 is right. My OB/GYN would have performed the abortion should something have gone wrong with my pregnancy and my fetus. I would not have had it done in an abortion clinic.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

So when the same argument is used on the subject of gun control, that any laws further the agenda of those who would ban all guns against Constitutional protection, you would also accept that argument? Because I have yet to find a liberal who does. The intent of the law is not the same as the intent of some who support it.

I don't support most laws that ban guns, but thanks for equating your side to people you have no respect for .

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

At the risk of a repremand, you win tool of the day for posting this picture.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

While this ban is not banning late-term abortions, banning this procedure, most often used in later-term abortions, is a step in the right direction...that direction being the banning of late-term abortions.

How can you accept that as a reasonable way to solve the problem? You may as well be banning doctors from wearing the color white while they perform abortions.

It's all political posturing. These bans do nothing but cause more harm.

[Scrum]

After my trip to the mall today, I think abortions should be allowed until someplace around the 18th year.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

At the risk of a repremand, you win tool of the day for posting this picture.

Why, because it's difficult to look at? Some people know the name but have no idea what the procedure is. I could have shown a real picture, but thought this more more tasteful.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Why, because it's difficult to look at? Some people know the name but have no idea what the procedure is. I could have shown a real picture, but thought this more more tasteful.

What it looks like doesn't mean anything, tasteful would be having a meaningful conversation without parading pictures for shock value.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

I don't support most laws that ban guns, but thanks for equating your side to people you have no respect for .

I just don't think the argument is always valid from either side. White Supremacists will support an end to affirmative action. That does not make the arguments against the practice right or wrong.