When mass killers meet armed resistance

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

that would require a police state

No it wouldn't. There are very few "gun free zones."

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

Like campus security and town police had VT secured?

Apparently, wasn't secured.

Originally Posted by 7960

Give people the option to carry. Not everyone will.

Obviously. You can also randomly say "not all sane people will" or "only people that will shoot you for no reason will".

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

No it wouldn't. There are very few "gun free zones."

almost every school in America

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

almost every school in America

Ok...and schools make up less than 1% of all buildings in the country.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

almost every school in America

and government building, and place that serves alcohol.... quite a few places really

[Publius]

Originally Posted by thomez

and government building, and place that serves alcohol.... quite a few places really

sports stadiums ... quite a few malls even here in Texas have ordinances against carrying firearms.

[Donkey®]

And I have no problem with SOME "gun free zones" if they are secured. Private businesses are a different thing btw.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Publius

sports stadiums ... quite a few malls even here in Texas have ordinances against carrying firearms.

yep, same here

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

And I have no problem with SOME "gun free zones" if they are secured. Private businesses are a different thing btw.

like a court, for instance - I think that is pretty reasonable, if they are secured with security at the doors and metal detectors, which is what the court my mother works at is like... but many places that are "gun free" don't really need to be either

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by thomez

like a court, for instance - I think that is pretty reasonable, if they are secured with security at the doors and metal detectors, which is what the court my mother works at is like... but many places that are "gun free" don't really need to be either

Agreed...but some of the places you listed are privately owned. Can't owners dictate whether or not they want their buildings to be "gun free?"

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Agreed...but some of the places you listed are privately owned. Can't owners dictate whether or not they want their buildings to be "gun free?"

they can, and i agree with that right. my point is that there are a lot more places that are gun free than one thinks of right off the bat.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Agreed...but some of the places you listed are privately owned. Can't owners dictate whether or not they want their buildings to be "gun free?"

sure, if the legal system would quit doing it for them

[Ardentfrost]

Something no one mentioned yet: securing a gun-free zone is a LOT more expensive than allowing people to have guns... allowing them to have guns is free (if you assume you'll have security guards on hand anyway), but securing a gun-free zone requires metal detectors, LOTS of security (more than normal) and security personel, etc...

If you're going to have a gun-free zone, you need to secure it (like the aforementioned court house). But some places are nearly impossible to secure... like large campuses. It's financially unrealistic to expect security to inspect every person that wanders onto campus, including looking inside student's rooms and cars... it just can't happen. In that case it especially shouldn't be a gun-free zone.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Something no one mentioned yet: securing a gun-free zone is a LOT more expensive than allowing people to have guns... allowing them to have guns is free (if you assume you'll have security guards on hand anyway), but securing a gun-free zone requires metal detectors, LOTS of security (more than normal) and security personel, etc...

It is expensive, but sometimes it is required. A well trained security force is usually better than random people.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Something no one mentioned yet: securing a gun-free zone is a LOT more expensive than allowing people to have guns... allowing them to have guns is free (if you assume you'll have security guards on hand anyway), but securing a gun-free zone requires metal detectors, LOTS of security (more than normal) and security personel, etc...

If you're going to have a gun-free zone, you need to secure it (like the aforementioned court house). But some places are nearly impossible to secure... like large campuses. It's financially unrealistic to expect security to inspect every person that wanders onto campus, including looking inside student's rooms and cars... it just can't happen. In that case it especially shouldn't be a gun-free zone.

That's pretty much a copout. We'll spend BILLIONS on offensive weapons and research of said weaponry but for defense it's "too expensive?" And every single building on a campus can be secured...not necessarily the WHOLE campus - including grounds.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

That's pretty much a copout. We'll spend BILLIONS on offensive weapons and research of said weaponry but for defense it's "too expensive?" And every single building on a campus can be secured...not necessarily the WHOLE campus - including grounds.

I don't know what you're talking about... you want to use tanks to defend colleges? And you say "we spend billions on weapons" like I'm ok with that

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

That's pretty much a copout. We'll spend BILLIONS on offensive weapons and research of said weaponry but for defense it's "too expensive?" And every single building on a campus can be secured...not necessarily the WHOLE campus - including grounds.

In other threads don't you bitch about how college is only for the rich? Needing a metal detector and a security guard at ever door isn't going to raise tuition at all.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

In other threads don't you bitch about how college is only for the rich? Needing a metal detector and a security guard at ever door isn't going to raise tuition at all.

Of course this would be helped with government subsidies at public schools...and that extra $50 a semester isn't all that bad.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Of course this would be helped with government subsidies at public schools...and that extra $50 a semester isn't all that bad.

are you suggesting we fence in the campus of every college in America so that we can put up checkpoints like it is the base in a war? or should we instead put detectors and police in every building for every hour of the day in which it is open?

seems rather absurd when the other simple measures that stop massacres and promote freedom seem to work rather well everywhere else - it would follow, in my opinion, to simply extend those inexpensive, in fact free, measures to the college campus environment

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by thomez

are you suggesting we fence in the campus of every college in America so that we can put up checkpoints like it is the base in a war? or should we instead put detectors and police in every building for every hour of the day in which it is open?

seems rather absurd when the other simple measures that stop massacres and promote freedom seem to work rather well everywhere else - it would follow, in my opinion, to simply extend those inexpensive, in fact free, measures to the college campus environment

I have yet to see where people having guns in a certain place has stopped crime anymore than tighter security. I would prefer having more security around than having that 19 year old with the Dr. Dre poster on his wall with a gun.