When mass killers meet armed resistance

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thomez

I can provide evidence that concealed carry permit holders are among the most law-abiding citizens in the nation, do you have anything to backup your absurd statements? Face it, there is no evidence to support such ridiculous predictions.

I'd like to see a study where concealed carriers, compared to those of the exact same socio-economic tier (so a 40 year old white male who carries with a wife and kids compared to a 40 year old white male who does not carry with a wife and and kids) and show me how carriers are more law-abiding

I'm sure most of this board went to college, well any of you live in dorms? Please tell me you think everyone in your dorm building should have had a gun freshman year when they just turned 18 as they moved in for the first semester

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'd like to see a study where concealed carriers, compared to those of the exact same socio-economic tier (so a 40 year old white male who carries with a wife and kids compared to a 40 year old white male who does not carry with a wife and and kids) and show me how carriers are more law-abiding

I'm sure most of this board went to college, well any of you live in dorms? Please tell me you think everyone in your dorm building should have had a gun freshman year when they just turned 18 as they moved in for the first semester

Not everyone, just the ones who want one. No one is advocating compulsory carry.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Not everyone, just the ones who want one. No one is advocating compulsory carry.

yes, you're forcing kids who only got picked up by that university and have to be housed there...to be forced to live in dorms with gun carriers, its unfair and if widely practiced is asking for trouble

even at UPenn, fights broke out at parties, frats/friends came by the next day/week looking for revenge, some guy freaks out and almost drinks himself to death because his gf leaves him for another university student, a girl starts taking high doses of medication to deal with being used while she was drunk at a party...or tells her partner, someone gets kicked out unjustly from a party, a drug deal turns out to be a fraud...

im sorry i don't want all those people carrying guns when im just trying to go to class, just leave me the fuck alone and own a gun in your own damn house in the woods or go to school at Utah if you're that paranoid that another Cho is going to happen despite the chances that its more likely you'll get struck by lightning, multiple times, in the same day

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'd like to see a study where concealed carriers, compared to those of the exact same socio-economic tier (so a 40 year old white male who carries with a wife and kids compared to a 40 year old white male who does not carry with a wife and and kids) and show me how carriers are more law-abiding

I'm sure most of this board went to college, well any of you live in dorms? Please tell me you think everyone in your dorm building should have had a gun freshman year when they just turned 18 as they moved in for the first semester

nice argument which is again contrary to facts and the law

concealed carry permits and legal purchase of handguns = age 21

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thomez

nice argument which is again contrary to facts and the law

concealed carry permits and legal purchase of handguns = age 21

1) wrong:
An applicant must be a United States citizen who is 18 years of age or older and who holds a valid Montana driver's license or other form of identification issued by the state that has a picture of the person identified
45-8-321. Permit to carry concealed weapon.

I said firearm, not handgun...like I'd feel safer that my room mate who is drinking half a bottle of vodka every night has a shotgun instead of a 9mm...

2) Many of the victims were 18-19 and in other states with 21 requirements obviously the age would have be lowered if they were going to be "given back their rights taken by liberals"

3) Many people enter college at 19-20, and their sophomore year are 21, still in dorms...many like Cho, were over 21 and lived in campus dorms/suites, again, I'd never want any of those people, even 21 year olds, filling my hallway with a gun everytime i just wanted to walk to class


Now, if you'd please apologize for saying my argument was contrary to facts and the law, that'd be apprecieted

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

1) wrong:
An applicant must be a United States citizen who is 18 years of age or older and who holds a valid Montana driver's license or other form of identification issued by the state that has a picture of the person identified
45--321. Permit to carry concealed weapon.

you cant conceal carry a long-gun.

I said firearm, not handgun...like I'd feel safer that my room mate who is drinking half a bottle of vodka every night has a shotgun instead of a 9mm...

If you really feel that way, why is it ok for that same 18 year old to own a shotgun off campus ? The fact that he is living in a dormroom doesnt change the possible danger so why should it change the law ?

[Ardentfrost]

It doesn't matter, because he's trying to advocate gun control based on his perception of how people are. It's a logical fallacy that he refuses to drop in this thread.

Additionally, the thread is only talking about people conceal carrying on campus. A very large portion of students in the US don't live on campus, so most of the people that would have guns that are in college still do, they just have to leave them in their house (where all their liquor is, by the way) instead of bringing them to campus.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Now, if you'd please apologize for saying my argument was contrary to facts and the law, that'd be apprecieted

I won't, because your argument is still contrary to facts and the law.

Hanguns and concealed carry permits are 21+ everywhere I know, if Montana was the exception it wouldn't really matter (do they have a college? )

You cannot concealed carry anything other than a handgun unless you are 7 foot tall and walk with a stiff leg all the time.

Despite your suggestion I have yet to see anyone advocate lowering the legal concealed carry age in this thread.

21 year olds with concealed carry permits - do you have any evidence of them abusing this? How many have used their firearm in an illegal way? Probably very close to zero, yet you continue to use your fear and misconceptions to justify a position that is irreconcilable.

[Thorgrim]

uhm...just because "a lot of states you know" have something, doesn't mean you can go "well you HAVE to be blah blah" no you don't...see Montana, unless being from Montana is not a requirement, and i said firearms, you said handguns

cmon, i know you have some class

BTW you can get pretty small rifles/shotguns that can easily used on a specialty coat to be totally concealed, and just hang up your coat behind your desk whenever you go to class

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

uhm...just because "a lot of states you know" have something, doesn't mean you can go "well you HAVE to be blah blah" no you don't...see Montana, unless being from Montana is not a requirement, and i said firearms, you said handguns

cmon, i know you have some class

BTW you can get pretty small rifles/shotguns that can easily used on a specialty coat to be totally concealed, and just hang up your coat behind your desk whenever you go to class

here you go - State Gun Laws :: Montana

Is it illegal for CCW permit holders to carry guns into schools? Partial
Montana - State law prohibits firearms in school buildings, including those possessed by concealed carry (CCW) permit holders; however, state law does not prohibit people from carrying concealed handguns on school grounds. Parents should know that concealed handguns may be carried onto their children's school grounds.

even for your 1 state exception, your conclusion is still false because it is illegal to carry in school buildings even with a CCW - got anything else?

also, I'd love to see the concealed carry shotgun or rifle you have in mind - link?

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

BTW you can get pretty small rifles/shotguns that can easily used on a specialty coat to be totally concealed, and just hang up your coat behind your desk whenever you go to class

CCW doesnt apply to long-guns. So no you cant.

[Thorgrim]

my post was that I DIDN'T want people to extend their "rights" into school buildings, not that it already happened...

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

my post was that I DIDN'T want people to extend their "rights" into school buildings, not that it already happened...

your statement was about concealed carry in the state of Montana at 18, which I showed does not extend into a school building

so at present there is not a school in the country where you could legally carry if under 21, which was your suggestion as to the alternative position of allowing such

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Please tell me you think everyone in your dorm building should have had a gun freshman year when they just turned 18 as they moved in for the first semester

so... at present you have still not provided a fact to support your position?

[Thorgrim]

do you not see the words "you think"? not "well do you want us to be like montana?"

my response was to your post which said i was wrong because you HAD to be 21, either for a CCW or to carry a gun

On the first part, I'm obviously right, see Montana
On the second part, I said firearm not handgun, and as said you can conceal a non-handgun weapon if you are walkin with a trench coat that simpley has a double layer on one side

[thomez]

so now we have singled this discussion down to the state of Montana which has less people than large cities, and the possibilities of 18-20 year olds concealed-carrying a rifle or shotgun in a double-layered trenchcoat on a daily basis.... even when they cannot do so in a school building. I can see that clearly you have no point which you can back up with a relevant fact if this is where the discussion deteriorated to.

[Thorgrim]

when you say someone is dead wrong on something, you can't go "oh sure there's possibilities, but...you suck"

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

when you say someone is dead wrong on something, you can't go "oh sure there's possibilities, but...you suck"

And in fact, that is not what has occurred.