bush accepts 'purple heart'.

[Linzyhop]

accepting a purple heart for verbal wounds?

fucking sticks and stones my friends. I wonder if mommy barbara called up all the parents of the boys that picked on poor whittle georgy when he was in elementary school.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by smokie700

Until a person has served and earned their own medals they have not eraned the right to comment on what someone who has served chooses to do with theirs.

We are the ones that award the medals. Members of the military are our employees, they are not our superiors.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by motivez

I think it's hilarious that Bush would accept it when he only signed up for the National Guard through Daddy's connection's in order to avoid being sent overseas to Vietnam.

Then why did he volunteer to go to Vietnam ?

Originally Posted by Scrum

We are the ones that award the medals.

no we arent.

Congress, President, or their commanding officers award medals.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Then why did he volunteer to go to Vietnam ?

404 volunteer not found

"Bush maintains that he joined the National Guard not to avoid service in Vietnam but because he wanted to be a fighter pilot. Rather than be drafted and serve in the infantry – an assignment Bush has acknowledged he did not want – he agreed to spend almost two years in flight training and another four years in part-time service."

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Then why did he volunteer to go to Vietnam ?

no we arent.

Congress, President, or their commanding officers award medals.

The Congress and President are employed by us, and their COs are employed by Congress/the President, and thus are employed by us.

[smokie700]

Originally Posted by Scrum

We are the ones that award the medals. Members of the military are our employees, they are not our superiors.

hmm every award i was given was signed off by an officer not a civilian. I do not work for you and you will see how true that is if you try to give me an order. I protect you and defend your rights but i do not work for you. I pay taxes also so I guess I am my own boss

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Publius

The Congress and President are employed by us, and their COs are employed by Congress/the President, and thus are employed by us.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by smokie700

hmm every award i was given was signed off by an officer not a civilian. I do not work for you and you will see how true that is if you try to give me an order. I protect you and defend your rights but i do not work for you. I pay taxes also so I guess I am my own boss

Really? You don't receive orders from a civilian?


Perhaps my copy of the constitution is wrong.


I'm sorry that you don't like it, but we are the employers of the military.

If the civilian government decided to disband the military tomorrow, it would happen.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

As much as I can respect the guy for his service, this idea of his is beyond retarded. While he was being shot earning his purple heart, GW had other things to do.

I will be a "draft dodger" if ever there is one. I am 100% against it, and I will not, under any circumstance, allow my government to coerce me into risking my life.

I applaud Bush for that, actually.

[smokie700]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Really? You don't receive orders from a civilian?


Perhaps my copy of the constitution is wrong.


I'm sorry that you don't like it, but we are the employers of the military.

If the civilian government decided to disband the military tomorrow, it would happen.

My orders come fromt the officers appointed over me. they take their orders from the commander in chief. A congressman/woman is nowhere in my chain of command.
so again by your logic I am my own boss. I wonder how that raise i want to give myself will work out.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Really? You don't receive orders from a civilian?


Perhaps my copy of the constitution is wrong.


I'm sorry that you don't like it, but we are the employers of the military.

If the civilian government decided to disband the military tomorrow, it would happen.

By that logic I am the owner of everything my taxes go towards. That's not how it works. Paying taxes doesn't give you ownership or rights over the military or its employees. If you've ever collected government money I guess that means smokie is your employer.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by JaJae

By that logic I am the owner of everything my taxes go towards. That's not how it works. Paying taxes doesn't give you ownership over anything. If you've ever collected government money I guess that means smokie is your employer.

No paying taxes does not give you ownership, as such.

You elect others to direct and run the government. While civilians do not employ the military, the military exists through the government, which civilians elect to represent them.

So a an individual is not the employer, the US government is, who represents the civilians.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Kytro

No paying taxes does not give you ownership, as such.

You elect others to direct and run the government. While civilians do not employ the military, the military exists through the government, which civilians elect to represent them.

So a an individual is not the employer, the US government is, who represents the civilians.

Correct. I donate money to the Red Cross during times of emergencies. If the civilians decided to stop donating to the Red Cross it would be disbanded, but I in know way employ anyone who works for the Red Cross.

I also shop at Stop & Shop. If we as civilians stopped shopping there the store would close down. But we in no way employ anyone who works there.

I pay taxes that go towards welfare. If we as a society decided to stop paying taxes they wouldn't get their welfare. But I don't employ anyone who collects welfare, etc.

The logic is flawed.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Correct. I donate money to the Red Cross during times of emergencies. If the civilians decided to stop donating to the Red Cross it would be disbanded, but I in know way employ anyone who works for the Red Cross.

There is a slight difference, Red Cross is a private organisation, the government is not. While civilians don't employ people, the public organisation does.

It more like if everyone was a shareholder of Stop and Shop we cannot go in a fire an employee or claim we employ them. Shareholders do however vote for the board, which does have that power or at least sets policy.

In any case the relationship between military and civilians is symbiotic

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Kytro

There is a slight difference, Red Cross is a private organisation, the government is not. While civilians don't employ people, the public organisation does.

It more like if everyone was a shareholder of Stop and Shop we cannot go in a fire an employee or claim we employ them. Shareholders do however vote for the board, which does have that power or at least sets policy.

In any case the relationship between military and civilians is symbiotic

I see what you're saying, but the analogy is still flawed. Paying taxes doesn't earn you any "shares" in the military or government funded programs. Nor do we as private citizens have a vote in what they can do. We can elect representatives who can be our voice (whether we agree with it or not), but even they don't employ the military.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I see what you're saying, but the analogy is still flawed. Paying taxes doesn't earn you any "shares" in the military or government funded programs. Nor do we as private citizens have a vote in what they can do. We can elect representatives who can be our voice (whether we agree with it or not), but even they don't employ the military.

Taxes do not earn you shares, your share is your right to vote.

The military are government employees.

GEAUSA - Home

U.S. Military Personnel and Veterans: USA.gov

I fail to see how the military are not employed by the government

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Kytro

Taxes do not earn you shares, your share is your right to vote.

The military are government employees.

GEAUSA - Home

U.S. Military Personnel and Veterans: USA.gov

I fail to see how the military are not employed by the government

It's one thing to say they're employed by the government. It's another to think your representative is the employer. At which point the shareholder analogy could be used, but still inadequate. In any event, the idea that the private citizen is the employer of someone in the military is just flat wrong.

Scope of the congressional and executive authority to prescribe the rules for the governance of the military is broad and subject to great deference by the judiciary. The Court recognizes “that the military is, by necessity, a specialized society separate from civilian society,” that “[t]he military constitutes a specialized community governed by a separate discipline from that of the civilian,” and that “Congress is permitted to legislate both with greater breadth and with greater flexibility when prescribing the rules by which [military society] shall be governed than it is when prescribing rules for [civilian society].”1452 Denying that Congress or military authorities are free to disregard the Constitution when acting in this area,1453 the Court nonetheless operates with “a healthy deference to legislative and executive judgments” with respect to military affairs,1454 so that, while constitutional guarantees apply, “the different character of the military community and of the military mission requires a different application of those protections.”1455

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by JaJae

It's one thing to say they're employed by the government. It's another to think your representative is the employer. At which point the shareholder analogy could be used, but still inadequate. In any event, the idea that the private citizen is the employer of someone in the military is just flat wrong.

Yes, a private citizen isn't the employer, the government is. If enough private citizens elect a representative they could indirectly influence policy.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

By that logic I am the owner of everything my taxes go towards. That's not how it works. Paying taxes doesn't give you ownership or rights over the military or its employees. If you've ever collected government money I guess that means smokie is your employer.

Are you really going to argue this?

You really don't think the military answers to, and is paid by, the elected civilian government?

That was my point. I wasn't comparing it to the type of employment you see at a fast food restaurant. The people control the military. It's direct through representation and constitutional.