9 U.S. troops killed north of Baghdad - Page 2

6SpeedTA95 · 04-25-2007, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Ok? I merely picked deaths in a war. Take Vietnam as a comparison. How many died per day? A lot more than we have dying in Iraq.

The point is still the same.

Ok thats a fair point and it's a lot easier to draw parallels between Iraq and Vietnam than WWII

thomez · 04-25-2007, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Perhaps you should keep deaths in a war in a real perspective. Take for example WWII. Men by the hundreds of thousands died on the battlefield in a single day.

Perhaps you should have a little more respect for each and every soldier who loses their life, no matter the rate of death. It is easy to look at them in terms of numbers and make some allusion to a real war with a real goal and purpose, one where we defended ourselves and our allies, but others in the world of reality see that they aren't fighting a war like that today. Perhaps those "small" numbers of deaths would matter a bit more to you if it was in fact a sibling, a parent, a son or a daughter.

thomez · 04-25-2007, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Ok? I merely picked deaths in a war. Take Vietnam as a comparison. How many died per day? A lot more than we have dying in Iraq.

The point is still the same.

The numbers of troops was different, the goal was different, the battlefield was different, the enemy was different, and the technology was different - just to name a few variables.

ballz2wallz · 04-25-2007, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

Perhaps you should have a little more respect for each and every soldier who loses their life, no matter the rate of death. It is easy to look at them in terms of numbers and make some allusion to a real war with a real goal and purpose, one where we defended ourselves and our allies, but others in the world of reality see that they aren't fighting a war like that today. Perhaps those "small" numbers of deaths would matter a bit more to you if it was in fact a sibling, a parent, a son or a daughter.

Perhaps you should have a little more respect for each and every solder who loses their life on the battlefied, instead of using them to push your own anti-war agenda.

My issue with this has zero to do with disrespect, and everything to do with correcting your assertions that these death rates are high.

ballz2wallz · 04-25-2007, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

The numbers of troops was different, the goal was different, the battlefield was different, the enemy was different, and the technology was different - just to name a few variables.

Just to name the common thread between them, war is war, and it's horrible.

To name another variable, our death rate is extremely low BECAUSE of those variables you just mentioned. You can thank our military's advanced technology for that. What is it you expect, a war with zero deaths? There's not a city in America that has a death rate like that, and you expect it to come out of a war?

thomez · 04-25-2007, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Perhaps you should have a little more respect for each and every solder who loses their life on the battlefied, instead of using them to push your own anti-war agenda.

My issue with this has zero to do with disrespect, and everything to do with correcting your assertions that these death rates are high.

+

High is relative. I think 1 is too high for a war I never thought we should have entered. Over 3 a day is just absurd.

ballz2wallz · 04-25-2007, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

High is relative. I think 1 is too high for a war I never thought we should have entered.

Ah see, it's purely political for you. Your accusations that the death rate is high have now lost credibility.

thomez · 04-25-2007, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Ah see, it's purely political for you. Your accusations that the death rate is high have now lost credibility.

It is not purely political, it is a tragedy which has nothing to do with politics at all.

ballz2wallz · 04-25-2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

which has nothing to do with politics at all.

This...

for a war I never thought we should have entered.

...is nothing but political my friend.

Because for people like myself, who support the decision to go into Iraq, realize it as a war, and accept the costs of war. Our differences in opinion on the issue of the war is political, and there's no way you can get around that.

thomez · 04-25-2007, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

This...

...is nothing but political my friend.

Because for people like myself, who support the decision to go into Iraq, realize it as a war, and accept the costs of war. Our differences in opinion on the issue of the war is political, and there's no way you can get around that.

I find the death of US soldiers a tragedy no matter if they are in Iraq or in training in Mississippi - the precarious position that we have put them in just adds to it. That isn't political at all, it is sadness.

motivez · 04-25-2007, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Motz not to derail your thread, if you want to move this feel free...

But on the topic of the surge not working did you guys hear about building a wall in baghdad to discourage violence? I think this is an abhorent idea and reminds me of the berlin wall.

The Malaki government ordered them to stop work on it actually, it'll be interesting to see whether or not we comply with the wishes of the Iraqi Government or not.

I don't like the ideas of a wall but I think Iraq is a fictional country that was drawn up by the British without concern or regard (or maybe with them?...) to the social and religious issues of the various factions living in the area.

6SpeedTA95 · 04-25-2007, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

The Malaki government ordered them to stop work on it actually, it'll be interesting to see whether or not we comply with the wishes of the Iraqi Government or not.

I don't like the ideas of a wall but I think Iraq is a fictional country that was drawn up by the British without concern or regard (or maybe with them?...) to the social and religious issues of the various factions living in the area.

They ordered us to stop, we stopped then they said to continue building it so we started again.

The point about Iraq being a ficticious country might indeed be a legitimate point but I do not see how that justifies the US building a wall effectively isolating two sections of the city.

motivez · 04-25-2007, 06:28 PM

I don't think it does either, but I think ultimately there will either be a genocide or Iraq will break up into smaller, autonomous countries.

It's obvious the Shi'a sect is going to become an Islamic Republic similar to Iran, Kurds are well set to manage themselves as they have been for years, what happens to the Sunni minority will be what is to be watched.. will the Saudi's back them and this will become a regional conflict? Or will they be slaughtered? Or what..

6SpeedTA95 · 04-25-2007, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't think it does either, but I think ultimately there will either be a genocide or Iraq will break up into smaller, autonomous countries.

It's obvious the Shi'a sect is going to become an Islamic Republic similar to Iran, Kurds are well set to manage themselves as they have been for years, what happens to the Sunni minority will be what is to be watched.. will the Saudi's back them and this will become a regional conflict? Or will they be slaughtered? Or what..

Valid questions but in my opinion those are questions Iraq has to answer...genocide, however, is something the world can not stand by and let happen.

motivez · 04-25-2007, 06:44 PM

Why not? We don't care one bit about Sudan, and when we pull our troops out, the only reason we're going to care is because we were there to begin with and there will be actual daily press coverage.

I don't want to see a genocide happen, but it's going to until there are some major reforms in the middle east and religion can take a back seat to social progress.. or there's a strong armed leader / dictator in place to force the peace.

There's too much bad blood dating back far too long, and no one is willing to give it up.

6SpeedTA95 · 04-25-2007, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Why not? We don't care one bit about Sudan, and when we pull our troops out, the only reason we're going to care is because we were there to begin with and there will be actual daily press coverage.

I don't want to see a genocide happen, but it's going to until there are some major reforms in the middle east and religion can take a back seat to social progress.. or there's a strong armed leader / dictator in place to force the peace.

There's too much bad blood dating back far too long, and no one is willing to give it up.

You dont think we should care about Sudan? I think we should and its sad that we dont.

motivez · 04-25-2007, 06:52 PM

I'm not saying we shouldn't, I think we absolutely should.. one only need to take a look at the google map thing where they show how wide spread and horrific that tragedy is to understand why the world should get involved (not just the US)

I'm just saying we don't.. so saying we "can't" is really an incorrect statement, we shouldn't, but we do.

6SpeedTA95 · 04-25-2007, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I'm not saying we shouldn't, I think we absolutely should.. one only need to take a look at the google map thing where they show how wide spread and horrific that tragedy is to understand why the world should get involved (not just the US)

I'm just saying we don't.. so saying we "can't" is really an incorrect statement, we shouldn't, but we do.

Ok, got ya.

Yes Sitting by and letting Sudan basically die on the vine is horrible. I do not understand how the US, the UN or anyone can sit by and watch that happen. Why aren't the dems or the reps or the media harping on this?

Is the entire country or world for that matter turning into a bunch of isolationist?

JaJae · 04-25-2007, 06:57 PM

Getting involved with the Sudan would be like getting involved with another Iraq. It's a big mess that the world isn't willing to fix.

6SpeedTA95 · 04-25-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Getting involved with the Sudan would be like getting involved with another Iraq. It's a big mess that the world isn't willing to fix.

Not even close to being the same. We created Iraq, Sudan is a cluster where people are being slaughtered by the thousands. Lets not forget isolationism has repeatedly bit us in the ass.