A ham sandwich a hate crime?

[BigRob]

WTF? This PC crap is going too far!

SunJournal.com - 'Hate incident' in city

LEWISTON - One student has been suspended and more disciplinary action could follow a possible hate crime at Lewiston Middle School, Superintendent Leon Levesque said Wednesday.

On April 11, a white student placed a ham steak in a bag on a lunch table where Somali students were eating. Muslims consider pork unclean and offensive.

The act reminded students of a man who threw a pig's head into a Lewiston mosque last summer.

The school incident is being treated seriously as "a hate incident," Levesque said. Lewiston police are investigating, and the Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence is working with the school to create a response plan.

"We've got some work to do to turn this around and bring the school community back together again," Levesque said.

Placing ham where Muslim students were eating was "an awful thing," said Stephen Wessler, executive director of the Center for Prevention of Hate Violence. "It's extraordinarily hurtful and degrading" to Muslims, whose religion prohibits them from being around ham. It's important to respond swiftly, Wessler said.

"Incidents like this that involve degrading language or conduct are often said by the perpetrator as a joke. I know that conduct is never static," he said. "It's part of a process of escalation."

If people think insulting Muslims with ham is OK, "More degrading acts will follow, until at some point we'll end up having violence," Wessler said.

The incident does not reflect the moral values of the school staff and students, Levesque said. "We need to take a look at this and review how a careless act is degrading and causes hurt to other people. All our students should feel welcome and safe in our schools."

He said a letter would be sent home to parents explaining what happened and outlining the school's response. Wessler will meet with students to address the school's climate, and staff will talk about how to respond to and prevent future hate incidents
'I didn't feel safe'

A 14-year-old Somali boy, whose mother asked that his name not be published, said he was eating lunch with four other Somali students on April 11. He noticed many others in the cafeteria "standing up, looking at us."

One boy came near, began laughing and threw a bag on the table while other students laughed and said, 'Good job.'"

[Publius]

it appears to have been a premeditated effort to make the students uncomfortable in their surroundings in a very offensive way, so I can understand it.

Don't agree with it (I don't agree with any hate crime legislation ... a crime is a crime), but I understand why some would see the action as one.

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by BigRob

WTF? This PC crap is going too far!

not if the students knew that muslims would react to ham like that.

what if some kids threw a cat sandwich or dog sandwich onto the table near where you were eating lunch. if might not be against your religion but it would gross you out just the same. it's along those lines.

if those kids did it with a malicious intent, then they should be punished.

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by BigRob

WTF? This PC crap is going too far!


'I didn't feel safe'

A 14-year-old Somali boy, whose mother asked that his name not be published, said he was eating lunch with four other Somali students on April 11. He noticed many others in the cafeteria "standing up, looking at us."

One boy came near, began laughing and threw a bag on the table while other students laughed and said, 'Good job.'"

So I assume you would be one of the kids laughing at them and saying good job to the kid who threw a ham sandwich at them??

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution!

[motivez]

While I don't agree with the concept of a 'hate crime' .. I think it's definitely racially (and religiously) motivated.. and should be punished accordingly

[hsmith]

It isn't a hate crime, it is kids being asses to one another.

jesus

[Roonie]

The story below happened just months before the middle school incident.

Standing up to prejudice - The Boston Globe

AFTER HIS ARREST, Brent Matthews, a 33-year-old trouble maker, said that rolling a pig's head into a mosque full of worshipers here last month was meant as a joke. However, this old mill town's 2,000 Somali Muslims -- out of a total population of 36,000 -- did not see the humor in it.
Besides the obviously hostile gesture of desecration, the Somali minority had to wonder: ``If a pig's head could be thrown into our mosque, what might be thrown next, a bomb?" asked Abdi Sheikh, a Somali resident and local leader.
Refugees from Somalia started coming here in numbers only about five years ago, and their integration into what is Maine's second-largest city has not been as smooth as it might have been. Somali refugees first came to Maine because that was where some were assigned. They chose Lewiston because housing was cheap and, in the words of one Somali mother, ``it seemed like a good place to bring up kids."
Lewiston grabbed national attention in 2002 when then-mayor Larry Raymond wrote an open letter to his Somali community asking them not to send for their relatives because Lewiston was ``maxed out, financially, physically, and emotionally."
Some cried racism, while a white supremacist group, World Church of the Creator, said it would descend on Lewiston to hold an anti-Somali immigrant rally early in 2003. That threat, in turn, spawned a local Lewiston group to promote tolerance called Many In One, which managed to attract 4,500 people while only 32 showed up for the white supremacist rally. Many In One held another rally earlier this month following the pig's head incident to support its Muslim neighbors. Some Somalis told the Maine Sunday Telegram that there had been other incidents such as acid dripped onto cars, tires slashed, and racial epithets hurled. But some of the incidents were part of general vandalism rather than directly targeted toward Somalis, according to town officials.
This old industrial town is reminiscent of Bradford, England, in that the textile industry that made it important has long fled, leaving magnificent old 19th- and early-20th-century mills empty with conversions and ``for sale" signs everywhere. And, as in Bradford, or the Kreuzberg section of Berlin, or the sad suburbs of Paris, Lewiston's Muslims have the highest unemployment rates -- ``70 to 80 percent" in Lewiston's case, according to Town Administrator Jim Bennett.
Lewiston is largely a town of French Canadians, who made many of the Union Army's uniforms during the Civil War. The impressive Saints Peter and Paul Church on Ash Street attests to the town's French heritage. A sign says ``Welcome, Bienvenue" to the ``Parish, Paroisse." In contrast, the mosque is in a storefront on Lisbon Street, next to the Caveman tattoo parlor, with a ``for sale" sign in the window and a notice advising ``brothers and sisters" to buckle their safety belts. The mosque is for sale because the community has out grown it, according to Abdi Sheikh.
The brothers and sisters have the Red Sea Restaurant to remind them of home cooking, and although the Cleopatra is closed for remodeling, it promises an African buffet soon with all you can eat for $6.99.
I met Abdi Sheikh in his Catholic Charities office in City Hall. He said that Catholic Charities helps everyone, and that it had been particularly helpful to Somalis trying to adjust to their new environment. For all his community's troubles, Abdi Sheikh gives the FBI, state, and local authorities high marks for the way they have handled the pig's head incident. He said that Lewiston, Maine, and America had been good for Muslims. Unlike Europe, it was easy to have a mosque with a minimum of red tape, and girls could wear head scarves to school, ``unlike France." He pointed out that discrimination was not as bad as it had been for the French Canadians who came to Lewiston in the 19th century and were forbidden to speak French in schools. Somalis were of a ``different religion, different color, and a different culture," Abdi Sheikh said, ``about as different as you can get."
It is easy to forget that Roman Catholics were once considered the un-absorbable minority in America, as immigration expert Jose Casanova has pointed out, and easy to forget that a Catholic church was once burned to the ground by bigots in Lewiston. Although prejudice still remains, the pig's head incident is not going to be as damaging to community relations as I am sure Brent Matthews hoped.

Lewiston Pig's Head Update


The man who infamously rolled a pig’s head into a mosque in Lewiston, Maine, last summer has committed suicide.
This man’s action probably set the stage for the dreaded Ham Steak of Hate incident, in which a middle school student is being investigated by the police for possible hate crimes, after he placed a paper bag containing a ham steak on a table at which Somali students were sitting.

There is always more to any story than meets the eye.

[Kytro]

I'm of two minds about this:

1) They were trying to upset the Somali students, and for that they should be punished.

2) The Somali students beliefs are not linked to reality, and hence I have little sympathy

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Kytro

I'm of two minds about this:

1) They were trying to upset the Somali students, and for that they should be punished.

2) The Somali students beliefs are not linked to reality, and hence I have little sympathy

For part two, it's not up to you to tell people how they believe and what they believe.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

For part two, it's not up to you to tell people how they believe and what they believe.

Of course it isn't. Intent is far more important here than the actual beliefs in question.

All I was saying is if people choose to believe something I think is foolish, then they themselves are at fault for being offended (ie: they make that choice).

So in essence, while I believe people should be punished for purposely attempting to upset the students, I blame the students themselves for an offense caused by the pork as opposed to the action

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by hsmith

It isn't a hate crime, it is kids being asses to one another.

jesus

I agree.

If this is the worst thing Middle School Kids are doing today we are damn lucky!

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Kytro

I'm of two minds about this:

1) They were trying to upset the Somali students, and for that they should be punished.

2) The Somali students beliefs are not linked to reality, and hence I have little sympathy

If they are going to go to American Schools they better have something in their beliefs that will allow them to stand up to bullies? While the school needs some measure of control in a learning environment it is not a good message to make young people think they will get protected by authority ever time they are offended.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

I agree.

If this is the worst thing Middle School Kids are doing today we are damn lucky!

christ the shit we used to do to one another in middle school and high school makes this look lame

christ the girls were flat out EVIL to one another in the things they would do

[7960]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

not if the students knew that muslims would react to ham like that.

if those kids did it with a malicious intent, then they should be punished.

exactly

burn two pieces of wood near a black person and nothing's wrong... put them in the shape of a cross first and you're in trouble.

put a sandwich near a muslim and you're fine...put pork in it because you know what it means to them and you're screwed.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by hsmith

christ the shit we used to do to one another in middle school and high school makes this look lame

christ the girls were flat out EVIL to one another in the things they would do

Don't even go there. A friend has three young daughters...and the things thay say and do in this liberated age!

Don Imus would blush!

Be glad you are a boy!

[Dumpy Dooby]

The school incident is being treated seriously as "a hate incident," Levesque said. Lewiston police are investigating, and the Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence is working with the school to create a response plan.

"We've got some work to do to turn this around and bring the school community back together again," Levesque said.

Jesus Christ. We Americans are becoming so pathetic.

[6SpeedTA95]

This is reeedamndiculous.

Kids being assholes get over it. This is no different then a kid getting beat up because he's got shitty clothes or because he's smaller than the other kids. This is kids being shitsticks thats all it is. Hate crime my ass.

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

This is reeedamndiculous.

Kids being assholes get over it. This is no different then a kid getting beat up because he's got shitty clothes or because he's smaller than the other kids. This is kids being shitsticks thats all it is. Hate crime my ass.

Hate crimes (also known as bias crimes) are violent crimes, hate speech or vandalism, motivated by feelings of enmity or animus against an identifiable social group. Animosity towards the victims of hate crimes are often based on race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, or national origin. Hate crimes differ from regular crime motivated by economic gain or personal animosity. In the United States, criminal acts motivated by bias can easily be confused with forms of expression protected by the U.S. Constitution.

Most hate crimes are committed not by members of an organized hate group but by individual citizens. Some perpetrators resent the growing economic power of a particular racial or ethnic group and engage in “scapegoating”; others react to a perceived threat to the safety and property value of their neighborhood. Still other offenders include “thrill seekers”--those who randomly target interchangeable representatives of minority groups for harassment and violence............


hmmmmmm sound familiar. I would say this story fits this definition. If the kid simply targeted one boy with pork then I would agree with the general feelings of the board on this topic. However there was a group and they were definately the minority. They all felt harassed and no longer felt safe. Not sure why this particular act would not be a hate crime???

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Roonie

hmmmmmm sound familiar. I would say this story fits this definition.

Except it doesn't fit the definition of a criminal. He's a fucking child.

If the kid simply targeted one boy with pork then I would agree with the general feelings of the board on this topic. However there was a group and they were definately the minority. They all felt harassed and no longer felt safe. Not sure why this particular act would not be a hate crime???

It's not a hate crime because he's a kid. He's doing what children do. His intentions might have been malicious, but he's not of the age at which the American populace considers someone responsible enough to definitively understand the concepts of right and wrong. We're talking about a thirteen year old boy, not a fundamentalist nutter with a pitchfork and torch. He's a kid, and he's acting like one. He is not a criminal.

It's rather shameful to see how sensitive Americans are getting.