I also have a question for pro-lifers - Page 2

7960 · 04-30-2007, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by lew

So you're saying if a woman conceives then she must have given at least some approval for the rape? Or is it something else? Please explain.

Or is it that you just disagree with it and this was just a bullshit answer?

Originally Posted by you

.
I do not believe in abortion in cases of rape.

By the mother engaging into an act which created the fetus in the first place, I'd say that the mother was agreeing to the contract.

Publius · 04-30-2007, 03:57 PM

Libertarians typically fall into one of two categories:

1) support a right to abortion because the woman's body is her own domain and no other person has a right to force any decision upon her, even the one to have a child.

2) oppose a right to abortion because a person should have to live up to the responsibility they took on by engaging in sex, knowing full-well that the potential for pregnancy and a child was there.

You can really look at it either way as a Libertarian, that's why it's hard to pin down a single position on the subject; because speaking from a libertarian philosophy there are two completely acceptable yet polar opposite stances on the issue.

lew · 04-30-2007, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

So you're saying if a woman conceives then she must have given at least some approval for the rape? Or is it something else? Please explain.

Or is it that you just disagree with it and this was just a bullshit answer?

I love when people bring up incest and rape cases of abortion, since, you know they make up such a huge chunk of the percentages of abortions.

7960 · 04-30-2007, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by lew

I love when people bring up incest and rape cases of abortion, since, you know they make up such a huge chunk of the percentages of abortions.

I love it when people completely dodge the question over and over while pretending they answered it

lew · 04-30-2007, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

I love it when people completely dodge the question over and over while pretending they answered it

Diesel66 · 04-30-2007, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by lew

I feel that the fetus has a right to life from conception.

I do not believe in abortion in cases of rape.

.

Abortion to keep the mother alive/major injury is fine.

Originally Posted by lew

I love when people bring up incest and rape cases of abortion, since, you know they make up such a huge chunk of the percentages of abortions.

just as bad as some of the prolifers focusing on 3rd term abortions.

Both cases are sooo low it isnt worth talking about.

95% plus of abortions are women choosing to abort because they dont want to be inconvienced.

7960 · 04-30-2007, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by lew

YOU said you don't make an exception for rape.

YOU said if a woman gets pregnant then she must have entered into a contract to get that way.

What YOU are saying is inconsistent. Sure it's not the most common way women get pregnant but it happens and for you to ignore it and say "women entered a contract to get pregnant" is either very ignorant or an attempt at humor. Since it's not funny...............

Publius · 04-30-2007, 04:15 PM

So you seriously feel a woman that has been raped should be required to give birth to a rape baby, no matter how traumatic that would be for her? It may not be physically damaging, but the emotional damage of doing that could render her just as "handicapped" as any physical injury due to birth could.

lew · 04-30-2007, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

So you seriously feel a woman that has been raped should be required to give birth to a rape baby, no matter how traumatic that would be for her? It may not be physically damaging, but the emotional damage of doing that could render her just as "handicapped" as any physical injury due to birth could.

Yes. And this isn't some hypothetical for me either. I had to face this a couple months ago.

lew · 04-30-2007, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

YOU said you don't make an exception for rape.

YOU said if a woman gets pregnant then she must have entered into a contract to get that way.

What YOU are saying is inconsistent. Sure it's not the most common way women get pregnant but it happens and for you to ignore it and say "women entered a contract to get pregnant" is either very ignorant or an attempt at humor. Since it's not funny...............

My point was addressed to a post by dumpy about people engaging into sex. It had nothing to do with rape.

Publius · 04-30-2007, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Yes. And this isn't some hypothetical for me either. I had to face this a couple months ago.

how can you feel it is just to force someone to give birth to a child that they did not in any way consent to creating? That is not in any way libertarian, paleo, neo, or any other form.

lew · 04-30-2007, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

how can you feel it is just to force someone to give birth to a child that they did not in any way consent to creating? That is not in any way libertarian, paleo, neo, or any other form.

Because I do not believe that the unborn fetus should be killed because of the crimes of its father.

Publius · 04-30-2007, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Because I do not believe that the unborn fetus should be killed because of the crimes of its father.

But you're perfectly okay with the mother having to suffer potentially debilitating emotional trauma as a result of the crimes of that "father."

I say "father" because while the rapist would certainly be the biological father, it is highly likely that in no way shape or form will the rapist be a father to the child; he won't play with it, he won't buy it food, diapers, etc. Most likely the mother, if forced to have the child, will either live on government aid to support it or give it away to the bloated adoption bureaucracy, furthering their claim to need more and more government funding.

In no way does this end well for anyone, except that the fetus is born.

lew · 04-30-2007, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

But you're perfectly okay with the mother having to suffer potentially debilitating emotional trauma as a result of the crimes of that "father."

I say "father" because while the rapist would certainly be the biological father, it is highly likely that in no way shape or form will the rapist be a father to the child; he won't play with it, he won't buy it food, diapers, etc. Most likely the mother, if forced to have the child, will either live on government aid to support it or give it away to the bloated adoption bureaucracy, furthering their claim to need more and more government funding.

In no way does this end well for anyone, except that the fetus is born.

ok

Publius · 04-30-2007, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by lew

ok

Explain it please. Explain how that is good for anyone except possibly the fetus, assuming it doesn't end up beaten or otherwise treated like shit by a mother that resents what it stands for or a foster system that doesn't give a damn about it.

Diesel66 · 04-30-2007, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

Explain it please. Explain how that is good for anyone except possibly the fetus, assuming it doesn't end up beaten or otherwise treated like shit by a mother that resents what it stands for or a foster system that doesn't give a damn about it.

Child lives vs being killed.

Publius · 04-30-2007, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Child lives vs being killed.

yea, because a life where you're hated by your mother and never know your father as anything more than a rapist that attacked your mother ... yea man, that sounds awesome.

7960 · 04-30-2007, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

yea, because a life where you're hated by your mother and never know your father as anything more than a rapist that attacked your mother ... yea man, that sounds awesome.

typical cop-out answer coming............wait for it........... wait for it...........

"adoption"

Publius · 04-30-2007, 04:59 PM

i agree with you on a lot lew, but in this case i think you're way off the mark.

lew · 04-30-2007, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

Explain it please. Explain how that is good for anyone except possibly the fetus, assuming it doesn't end up beaten or otherwise treated like shit by a mother that resents what it stands for or a foster system that doesn't give a damn about it.

Because I don't believe in killing innocents based upon some high chance that they'll have a shitty life.

And I agree with you that the mother shouldn't be getting welfare or other benefits - but that's the problem with welfare. That's a different issue from abortion.

I just simply don't believe in ending a life for the sake of "the greater good." The "greater good" is a collectivist, socialist perception and I disagree with it.

View Poll Results: Why are you against abortion?
I believe the fetus has the right to life from conception	4	40.00%
I believe people should be held accountable for their actions	2	20.00%
Other (please post)	4	40.00%
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