I also have a question for pro-lifers

But I didn't want to derail the other thread.

For those of you who are against abortion for any reason besides rape or for the mother's health, why do you make exceptions in those circumstances?

Are you pro-life becuase you believe fetuses have the right to live once conceived, or are you pro-life because you believe people should be held responsible and accountable for their actions?

For those of you who are pro-life because you believe the fetuses have the right to live once conceived, why do you feel abortion is acceptable in those certain circumstances, especially rape?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by 03 white zx3

But I didn't want to derail the other thread.

For those of you who are against abortion for any reason besides rape or for the mother's health, why do you make exceptions in those circumstances?

Are you pro-life becuase you believe fetuses have the right to live once conceived, or are you pro-life because you believe people should be held responsible and accountable for their actions?

For those of you who are pro-life because you believe the fetuses have the right to live once conceived, why do you feel abortion is acceptable in those certain circumstances, especially rape?

Excellent thread!

I voted the fetus has a right to life, but I also feel people must be responsible for their own actions. For me its two fold. As a result I think in instances of rape the mother should have the right to choose an abortion. So for someone like myself I believe in both aspects of your poll but I also believe that a woman should have the right to an abortion from a political standpoint even though I dislike it from a personal standpoint. In some instances and this is one of them it is necessary for people to seperate their personal beliefs or religious beliefs from what is correct politically for the rights of others in the country.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by 03 white zx3

But I didn't want to derail the other thread.

For those of you who are against abortion for any reason besides rape or for the mother's health, why do you make exceptions in those circumstances?

Are you pro-life becuase you believe fetuses have the right to live once conceived, or are you pro-life because you believe people should be held responsible and accountable for their actions?

For those of you who are pro-life because you believe the fetuses have the right to live once conceived, why do you feel abortion is acceptable in those certain circumstances, especially rape?

I agree with 6Speed. I am not against choice as a legal matter. But I do not like the way you pose these "back against the wall" questions. Life and death decisions are made daily. By police, firemen, doctors, men and women in the military. People are left to die while others live. Who is to say what would have happened if behavior changed? To suggest some absolute choice than can be made by one side of an issue but not the other is moral cowardice. To abort or be conflicted seems to be the implied solution. How easy is it to proclaim the fetus has no life and no rights and let the abortion mills run at full steam ahead? I don't think the idea that a woman does not need to die giving birth is equal to treating the unborn an inconvenient medical waste.

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

I agree with 6Speed. I am not against choice as a legal matter. But I do not like the way you pose these "back against the wall" questions. Life and death decisions are made daily. By police, firemen, doctors, men and women in the military. People are left to die while others live. Who is to say what would have happened if behavior changed? To suggest some absolute choice than can be made by one side of an issue but not the other is moral cowardice. To abort or be conflicted seems to be the implied solution. How easy is it to proclaim the fetus has no life and no rights and let the abortion mills run at full steam ahead? I don't think the idea that a woman does not need to die giving birth is equal to treating the unborn an inconvenient medical waste.

I am not talking about the millions of abortions that are performed every year. I am sincerely asking why some pro-lifers make exceptions. It seems to me that if the person was pro-life and sincerely concerned about the life of the unborn child, they would not make an exception for something like the mother being raped. Afterall, it's not the child's fault, right? So why must the unborn child die because of what happened to it?

Does that make sense?

[lew]

I feel that the fetus has a right to life from conception.


I do not believe in abortion in cases of rape.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by lew

I feel that the fetus has a right to life from conception.


I do not believe in abortion in cases of rape.

How do you account for the mother's right to do as she pleases with her own body?

[7960]

Originally Posted by 03 white zx3

.... or are you pro-life because you believe people should be held responsible and accountable for their actions?

This one makes me laugh........... it will inevitably lead to "the bitch opened her legs so she should have to deal with it!" and I can feel my IQ going down as it's happening so don't get in that discussion any more.

[7960]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

How easy is it to proclaim the fetus has no life and no rights and let the abortion mills run at full steam ahead?

And my answer......... so? You say that like there are measurable repercussions to it. Your personal (religious, whatever) belief is that "abortion is bad." Mine is "abortion is not bad." Why is your believe more important or right?

Originally Posted by lew

I feel that the fetus has a right to life from conception.

I do not believe in abortion in cases of rape.

This is an intellectually honest answer. I disagree with it, but that's an issue for a different thread.

Originally Posted by 7960

This one makes me laugh........... it will inevitably lead to "the bitch opened her legs so she should have to deal with it!" and I can feel my IQ going down as it's happening so don't get in that discussion any more.

I figured the discussion surrounding that question would be a little more mature and thoughtful than on but that's basically the gist (jist?) of the question. Are people pro-life for the unborn child or to "punish" the woman for getting pregnant?

[7960]

Originally Posted by 03 white zx3

I figured the discussion surrounding that question would be a little more mature and thoughtful than on but that's basically the gist (jist?) of the question. Are people pro-life for the unborn child or to "punish" the woman for getting pregnant?

from discussions I've seen I'd say it's 50/50........ and not "half think this and half think that." again, from discussions I've had IMO most pro-life individuals think BOTH that the fetus has rights and she should "be responsible for her actions" (in other words, "pay for spreading her legs").

[lew]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

How do you account for the mother's right to do as she pleases with her own body?

The same way I account for all people to have rights to do whatever they want with their own bodies - as long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by lew

The same way I account for all people to have rights to do whatever they want with their own bodies - as long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others.

So the baby is entitled to steal its mother's nutrients? That sounds rather coercive, from a libertarian standpoint.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

So the baby is entitled to steal its mother's nutrients? That sounds rather coercive, from a libertarian standpoint.

By the mother engaging into an act which created the fetus in the first place, I'd say that the mother was agreeing to the contract.

[7960]

Originally Posted by lew

By the mother engaging into an act which created the fetus in the first place, I'd say that the mother was agreeing to the contract.

your attempt at a "cute" definition fails in the case of rape....... since you disagree with it in those circumstances, too, please explain how she agreed to a contract in that case

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by lew

By the mother engaging into an act which created the fetus in the first place, I'd say that the mother was agreeing to the contract.

Am I the only libertarian that feels like he just read, "By living in this country, you are signing a social contract to partake in our progressive tax system." Honestly, that's exactly what that looks like; it's just written differently.


I was actually hoping you could give me a more substantial libertarian stance because I have yet to hear one regarding abortion.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Am I the only libertarian that feels like he just read, "By living in this country, you are signing a social contract to partake in our progressive tax system." Honestly, that's exactly what that looks like; it's just written differently.


I was actually hoping you could give me a more substantial libertarian stance because I have yet to hear one regarding abortion.

The Libertarian stand on abortion

cliffs: blah blah blah, I hope they're not really hoping for an answer besides the libertarian's pat answer "govt is bad, M'kay?"

[Ardentfrost]

I clicked "other" because while I think both reasons are good reasons to be prolife, I'm not really either. I think that once a child is conceived, unless otherwise compromised (eg could kill the mother, has major disease, etc...), it is a shame to abandon that potential life. I am certainly against a regulation of abortion... if others want them, that is their choice. However, I would much rather find some other way to deal with an unwanted child than to just get rid of it before birth. There is, of course, adoption which is a very viable method of dealing with a child you cannot take care of.

Last year my baby sister got pregnant at 18 years old. She ended up marrying the guy that knocked her up and having the kids (turned out to be twins) and is being very responsible about her mistake, but had she entertained the notion of aborting the baby, I would have pleaded with her to let me take care of them until she was older or just forever. That way the children could have still had their family and know their mother and all that, without killing them or putting them up for adoption.

That's just the way I feel. But being pro-life has nothing to do with regulating people's personal lives. I hope you don't confuse the two.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Am I the only libertarian that feels like he just read, "By living in this country, you are signing a social contract to partake in our progressive tax system." Honestly, that's exactly what that looks like; it's just written differently.


I was actually hoping you could give me a more substantial libertarian stance because I have yet to hear one regarding abortion.

I have stated, over and over and over again, that I disagree with the libertarian stance on abortion.

[lew]

Originally Posted by 7960

your attempt at a "cute" definition fails in the case of rape....... since you disagree with it in those circumstances, too, please explain how she agreed to a contract in that case