Biofuels: Think Outside The Barrel - Google TechTalks

Nonphixion · 08-11-2006, 07:10 PM

OpposingDigits Vlog » Archive » Biofuels: Think Outside The Barrel - Presentation

The biofuel solution presented here is a very efficient one, championed by a billionare of silicon valley and the world expert on all Bio-fuels. I beleive after refining cost it boils down to $1.20 vs $1.60 given March ethanol/gasoline prices, and for ethanol that price even drops down to $0.90 with advanced cellulose methods of production.

I thoroughly support pumping money into our rural farm communities/producers, to produce these numerous varieties of fuel crops. In order to stimulate this country's economy from it's "grass roots" -- if you'll forgive the pun. It seems the most rational and viable idea to date.

motivez · 08-11-2006, 07:56 PM

I think the question is, will all future cars be able to run on it either standard or with some not so expensive modification?

We all want to see cheaper prices for fuel, but if someone is going to have to buy a new car to be able to use it.. it kinda sucks.

ballz2wallz · 08-11-2006, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think the question is, will all future cars be able to run on it either standard or with some not so expensive modification?

We all want to see cheaper prices for fuel, but if someone is going to have to buy a new car to be able to use it.. it kinda sucks.

you think the next wave of fuels will be compatible with the cars we have now?

Nonphixion · 08-11-2006, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think the question is, will all future cars be able to run on it either standard or with some not so expensive modification?

We all want to see cheaper prices for fuel, but if someone is going to have to buy a new car to be able to use it.. it kinda sucks.

He covers that in the video, VW is considering phasing out all gasoline-only cars for model year 2007 (this year) worldwide. And I think the figure is 40% of GM vehicles are already able to take this fuel, as well as many other older vehicles (of numerous different makes) are able to use ethanol relatively easily. The only prerequisite to having an ethanol-capable vehicle is a sufficient the O2 sensor, to mix more oxygen in with the same amount of fuel injected, as compared to when combusting gasoline.

And that's all there is to it -- that O2 sensing part costs auto manufacturers about $30 on average.

motivez · 08-11-2006, 08:21 PM

So can all cars be modified to run this stuff for about $30?

Nonphixion · 08-11-2006, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

So can all cars be modified to run this stuff for about $30?

Not all -- any with adequate engines, meaning you won't find a Pinto at the ethanol pump. But any 2005+ Ford F150 can be along with many other "regular" cars and trucks.

Any given engine that was relatively well designed, should be able to handle the slightly higher compression

edit: Also let it be known that higher compression also translates to more power, most high-performance and exotic sports cars use very high compression ratios to achieve promethian power at the cylinders. Including supercars such as the Enzo and the McLaren F1.

motivez · 08-11-2006, 08:49 PM

Sounds like a good deal then

Hopefully it wont be too long before we can benefit from this as a nation

6SpeedTA95 · 08-11-2006, 10:36 PM

Ethanol is a reasonable alternative/supplement to oil. The big problem right now is it doesn't burn too cleanly. The catalytic converters do a good job of filtering most of the shit but they get clogged up about 5x quicker with ethanol. So instead of never replacing one, or doing it once while you own a car you may be doing it every 30k or so.

Also, on the cost factor, ethanol decreases fuel economy by about 35%...granted if its cheaper by 50 or 60% thats cool but another concern no one is addressing is what happens during drought conditions that we're experiencing now in the plains states? What happens when we have very active severe weather seasons that destroy thousands upon thousands of acres of crops? Prices will go up, way up...I'm not saying we shouldn't pursue it, I think we should, but hailing it as an end all be all is misplaced.

DosEquis · 08-12-2006, 12:49 PM

I think the disclaimer should read UP TO 35% decrease in fuel economy. When I ran E85 in my truck in Sioux Falls, it was about a 10-15%. I am sure how you drive has a huge influence on whether its 15% or 35%. If I am whippin shitters around town then yes, probably 35% less efficient.

Big storm takes out crops... big storm takes out oil fields. They have about the same risk.

Nonphixion · 08-13-2006, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I think the disclaimer should read UP TO 35% decrease in fuel economy. When I ran E85 in my truck in Sioux Falls, it was about a 10-15%. I am sure how you drive has a huge influence on whether its 15% or 35%. If I am whippin shitters around town then yes, probably 35% less efficient.

Big storm takes out crops... big storm takes out oil fields. They have about the same risk.

Except for oil refineries and oil rigs are notoriously right on the coastline, sometimes even touching the water directly -- where the weather is generated.

motivez · 08-13-2006, 12:43 PM

I didn't know it was so ineffecient.. 35% seems pretty big.

Is this based on corn or sugar ethanol?

DosEquis · 08-13-2006, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I didn't know it was so ineffecient.. 35% seems pretty big.

Is this based on corn or sugar ethanol?

I am not sure if there is a difference between the ethanol after its created. However the 35% is lofty. I am sure there are cases of that, but I did not experience this with my personal use. I lost about 2 mpg.

motivez · 08-14-2006, 04:20 PM

I thought there was a huge difference in the effeciency of sugar based ethanol and the effeciency of corn based? I know there's been a lot of talk about how Brazil moving to declare energy independence soon.

So that's only in the production stage?

DosEquis · 08-14-2006, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I thought there was a huge difference in the effeciency of sugar based ethanol and the effeciency of corn based? I know there's been a lot of talk about how Brazil moving to declare energy independence soon.

So that's only in the production stage?

Yeah, using sugar to create ethanol is more efficient than using corn or switch grass. However, once ethanol is created...ethanol is ethanol.

They started developing the stuff in the 1970s and just recently they annouced their energy independence.