The most difficult aspect of the violence in Iraq is the fact that there's no solid leader leading the Shi'ites or the Sunnis. Because of this, coming to a compromise between the two warring parties is virtually impossible; one side must cease to exist before there can be harmony in ...
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08-14-2006, 12:01 PM
| #41 | ||||
| Políticas Quijotizadas  Miami, FL 
| The most difficult aspect of the violence in Iraq is the fact that there's no solid leader leading the Shi'ites or the Sunnis. Because of this, coming to a compromise between the two warring parties is virtually impossible; one side must cease to exist before there can be harmony in that region. And the fact that Malaki is exuding a blatant bias (Read the Aug. 14 TIMES issue: Baghdad Diary) against the Sunnis (he himself being a Shi'ite), compromise and a solution to the violence is even more difficult to come to. I agree, there has been significant advancement in Iraq, however. all parties involved have a LONG way to go. I expect years of violence to occur before any credible solution is reached between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. | ||||
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08-14-2006, 12:02 PM
| #42 | ||||
| Banned  Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| how easily you guys downplay or even mock the advances made in iraq  do you not even try to hide it anymore?it's also easy to say we're 'not doing anything' and 'don't have plans' when you're sitting in the US and not over there, yeah? i mean, it makes complete sense to just 'not have any plans' while our troops are in another country. yeah...real smart guys, real smart. | ||||
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08-14-2006, 12:03 PM
| #43 | ||||
| Never, never, never give up  Conservative Party High Point, NC
| Originally Posted by motivez
 I remember CNN actually reporting live from Iraq and reporting how well Saddam was doing. Gooood times.... Good times..... | ||||
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08-14-2006, 12:14 PM
| #44 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est  Pragmatist North Carolina
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz I'm not trying to downplay anything.
Every sign over there points to increasing instability, increasing violence, less control over provinces, etc.. I'm sure we're doing some good stuff. Building a school is fantastic, but does no good if the children are blown up by a car bomb on the way to school because someone doesn't like that they're Shiite's. I'm sure there's plenty of plans, just none that offer steps and timetables for completing those steps that eventually lead us out of our role as it stands now. | ||||
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08-14-2006, 12:16 PM
| #45 | ||||
| Políticas Quijotizadas Miami, FL
| But the biggest reason why it is so difficult to formulate a plan around the situation is because the enemy is so abstract. | ||||
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08-14-2006, 01:16 PM
| #46 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time.  Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by Concept What bothers me the most, is that how could they have not realized this before we invaded.
I get the sense from this Administration that there was no way that they could have predicted all that has happened. Maybe you can't predict it, but didn't they even consider it? This region is not soley surviving on voting and democracy, this region functions only within Islamic Law. And now two sects of Islam are fighting over which one of them gets to enforce their religious doctrine... This is the freedom we were fighting for?  | ||||
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08-14-2006, 01:28 PM
| #47 | ||||
| Políticas Quijotizadas Miami, FL
| Wasn't Islam known to be a 'peaceful' religion?  | ||||
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08-14-2006, 01:36 PM
| #48 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by Concept
Not for a very long time. It's just like any religion. Sects take a tidbit of scripture and base their whole religion on it, and downplay the importance of other parts. Fundamentalist Muslim's follow heavily the part in the Quaran about "Converting by blood" and that "Islamic law is the only law". For a very long time, since the crusades, these people have been bitter at the Christian West because we have come into their countries and taken people away from their sacred laws. And now they are getting back at us. This is something to consider before you go to war with a country. If their religion says that they should be killing you anyways, invading their country may just inflame them...right? | ||||
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08-14-2006, 02:23 PM
| #49 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist North Carolina
| I think it's important to understand the difference between radical Islam and normal Islam. We have many Muslim's in the US who are peaceful and don't wish us harm. I think "fundamentalist" is perhaps the wrong word for the extreme branch, as it lends some kind of credibility to their viewpoint. | ||||
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08-14-2006, 02:45 PM
| #50 | ||||
| Políticas Quijotizadas Miami, FL
| Originally Posted by motivez I agree, but I believe that 'fundamentalist' is an incorrect term. They are simply extremeist; the fundamentals of Islam do not call for death, just as the fundamentals of Christianity do not call for killing in the name of God as the crusades figured.
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08-14-2006, 09:27 PM
| #51 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by Concept Well, I think Fundamentalist is the "right" book term for it, and what we forget because we are so used to it, is that Christian Fundamentalists do have world wide conversion on their to-do list. Christian Fundamentalists also might believe that the real reason we went to Iraq was because of Fundamentalist beliefs that they have, to spread Christianity to the Middle East again...
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08-14-2006, 09:28 PM
| #52 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland big difference though...it's not a 'convert or be killed' mindset
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08-14-2006, 09:42 PM
| #53 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz
Well, it kinda is. Because they believe all that do not convert and accept Jesus will die in the rapture. They believe that they must do whatever they can to help the world convert and know Jesus as savior, because those who don't will have to live on earth during the end times. And also, they believe that, especially in America, that we should be living by Christian laws. So, yes it is convert or you will die. The Muslims believe that while not everyone may not be Muslim, that everyone should live by the laws of Islam. The extremests (farther out than the Fundmamentalists) believe in the conversion by the sword. Both sides have their fundamentalists. Both sides have their extremists. The sad thing is, that 99% of the rest of the world could care less about either of these groups and we just want to have happy lives and keep on trucking. But it's that 1% that have such extreme beliefs that it's making really hard for us to do that. | ||||
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08-15-2006, 04:41 AM
| #54 | ||||
| left or right?  ames, ia
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland Worse even, they take interpretations of parts of scripture from centuries ago and build an entire philosophy around it. Damn you Ibn Taymaiyah.
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08-15-2006, 05:15 AM
| #55 | ||||
| You poop from your mouth.  Populist
| Originally Posted by Concept Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).
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08-15-2006, 05:33 AM
| #56 | ||||
| Unite for Dems or Liberty Dies  Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| Originally Posted by archangel003 Funny, when I looked up those numbers are QuranBrowser, I found statements like this instead of your "interpretation"
You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors. Sounds pretty peaceful to me, I'm sure here and there, completely out of context, you could could twist the Koran to justify prejudice against 1 billion muslims... Here is something from the Bible: Lord God commanded: "put to death men and women, children and infants" "Do not leave alive anything that breathes." Deuteronomy 20:16 Clearly, the Christian and Jewish God supports genocide, and Hitler by default That's leaving out all the passages of the Christian God supporting spousal abuse, summary executions for small infractions, theocratic dictatorships (like in Iran), beating your slave until he almost dies, raping your slaves, raping little girls who are in a non-Israeli town, support for chattel and harsh slavery, heavily beating your children at whim including killing your own childrne if they got in a heated argument with you That's just the tip of the iceberg, the Bible is full of things we would find to be anti-American that may be out of context, but I didn't bother to look at the entire chapter, just like you didn't, so I'll just cut and paste what I like | ||||
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08-15-2006, 07:47 AM
| #57 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland
 'you have the choice to convert' is hardly the same as 'convert or i'll cut your head off' | ||||
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08-15-2006, 05:04 PM
| #58 | ||||
| Políticas Quijotizadas Miami, FL
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim Oh my god; I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Thorgrim.
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08-15-2006, 05:31 PM
| #59 | ||||
| left or right? ames, ia
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim
Well argued. *golf clap* | ||||
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08-15-2006, 06:15 PM
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