First Republican Presidential Debate is Tonight, 8PM EDT

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrum

And you think another politician would not have done these things as well as he did them?


Another question I have to ask of people who like Rudy, what makes him qualified to be president? The fact that he was mayor on 9/11? Even if you think he did an outstanding job during a crisis like that, wouldn't he be better as the head of FEMA?

Do I think another politician wouldn't have done the things he did as well? I think it takes a no-nonsense Italian from the Bronx to handle 9/11 the way he did. I'm sure someone could handle it as well as he did, but they weren't in the position so I don't know who could. But I do know that Rudy could destroy most expectations in a crisis situation and handle the situation swiftly and and properly to the degree I haven't seen any politician handle a crisis in my lifetime.

What makes Obama qualified? He's a short term senator who gave one good speech and can barely take advantage of the media love affair. What makes half the people running now qualified? Rudy is a politician, he knows the game and I feel he's capable of handling the job just as well as someone who votes on bills they don't even read. The fact that he's only been a mayor and isn't corrupted to the national level to get their Senator position makes him more agreeable to me. Hell, I'd vote for someone with no political experience to be president if I felt their views were in line with mine. For example if 6Speed or 7960 ran for president tomorrow I'd vote for them over just about any politician running, regardless of their inexperience in politics on the national or state level.

[Scrum]

What does Obama have to do with why you like Rudy?

This country is fucked if Rudy or McCain gets elected. They will continue the failed policies of the current administration.

Your reasons for liking Rudy boils down to 9/11, he's not less qualified than Obama and he has little political experience (which can be a good thing to me as well)?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrum

What does Obama have to do with why you like Rudy?

He's a politician who's running. You're questioning Rudy's qualifications so I'm picking the front-runner for the Dems who has very little experience (Rudy was leading the Republicans last I heard) on the national level. I like to use comparisons and examples. Obama is the best example to compare to. How about Hillary Clinton? What's her qualifications? She's doing well in the Democratic polls as well. What about half the people running.. what are their qualifications? Short term senators and governors, etc have less experience in my opinion than Rudy... yet they are leading the polls. Qualifications aren't the only thing people look for when voting for a president. Most people vote for the person they feel could best handle the job and whose views are more in line with their own.

Rudy is a moderate. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Moreso than any other person running. So therefore I like him.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

He's a politician who's running. You're questioning Rudy's qualifications so I'm picking the front-runner for the Dems who has very little experience (Rudy was leading the Republicans last I heard) on the national level. I like to use comparisons and examples. Obama is the best example to compare to. How about Hillary Clinton? What's her qualifications? She's doing well in the Democratic polls as well. What about half the people running.. what are their qualifications? Short term senators and governors, etc have less experience in my opinion than Rudy... yet they are leading the polls. Qualifications aren't the only thing people look for when voting for a president. Most people vote for the person they feel could best handle the job and whose views are more in line with their own.

Rudy is a moderate. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Moreso than any other person running. So therefore I like him.

Seems like a bit of a red herring to bring up opposing party candidates when I ask you why you like the guy you like.

That's all i'm saying.


If someone were to ask me why I like Pink Floyd I wouldn't start talking about why I don't like the Beatles.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrum

This country is fucked if Rudy or McCain gets elected. They will continue the failed policies of the current administration.

Your reasons for liking Rudy boils down to 9/11, he's not less qualified than Obama and he has little political experience (which can be a good thing to me as well)?

Reponse to edit:

No they don't boil down to 9/11. I was just chiming in to shed light on the Rudy 9/11 jokes. He did a great job. He also transformed NYC into a town I now enjoy to frequent that I wouldn't have gone to at all had he not been mayor. After he left it has slowly started to get worse again. His positions are also very much in line with my own. And I know from his work in NYC he's a hard worker and he actually gets results. He was a Republican in NYC (full of liberals) and got a lot of things done. Obviously because he was conservative and the city was liberal he stepped on a lot of toes, but at the same time the results speak for themselves. He did a great job as mayor of NYC and his political views make him quite possibly the most moderate if not the most moderate conservative running. So therefore, I like him. I also like Ron Paul and Romney is ok I guess. On the Democratic side I like Obama as my favorite (I wasn't bashing him above) and I'm starting to change my opinion of Biden. If I had to pick my favorite politicians right now it would be a toss-up between Rudy and Obama, then Ron Paul, then Romney and finally Biden. I could go on forever as to my reasons why I like each of these politicians, but their "qualifications" would be at the very bottom of my list.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Seems like a bit of a red herring to bring up opposing party candidates when I ask you why you like the guy you like.

That's all i'm saying.


If someone were to ask me why I like Pink Floyd I wouldn't start talking about why I don't like the Beatles.

I brought up the other person I like who's qualifications could also be questioned. It's not just bringing up the opposing party, it's making a comparison. Just because I made a comparison and said look he's not qualified either doesn't mean I'm using a red herring. it's true that Obama is a short term senator which speaks of his qualifications. The media had a love affair with him and he was unable to monopolize on it... which some may think speaks of his qualifications to be president. But in order for it to be a red herring it would have to imply I don't like Obama, but I've said from the very start of this election process that he is one of my favorites and he continues to be.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrum

If someone were to ask me why I like Pink Floyd I wouldn't start talking about why I don't like the Beatles.

No it would be like being asked "What's Pink Floyd's qualifications to be a national superstar band in America?" And I would say, "Well look at the Beatles, they came out of nowhere and they did it. So I think Pink Floyd could do it as well because it isn't all about marketing it has to do with the quality of their work and whether I and other people like them."

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Well not everyone is from the Tri-State area. His approval rating jumped like 45% overnight.

I think after any major attack whoever happens to be in office would enjoy a huge jump in approval ratings. People band together and rally behind the leader immediately following a huge, unexpected attack. The same happened to Bush.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I think after any major attack whoever happens to be in office would enjoy a huge jump in approval ratings. People band together and rally behind the leader immediately following a huge, unexpected attack. The same happened to Bush.

Motivez had the same response, and it's a relevant one. However, the fact that approval numbers jumped means that people approved of the way he was handling it. I can't think of a single person I know in NJ who doesn't think Rudy did a good job in the aftermath of 9/11. Some people may have complaints of him as a mayor, but nobody really criticizes him for his work on 9/11. And that is essentially the point I was trying to make. Jokes were being made about him being charge of NYC during 9/11. First of all, he had nothing to do with planes being flown into a city. He was just a mayor. He couldn't have prevented that. His term was expiring and he got his term extended, with the willing permission of the new mayor, and he took charge and took control of the situation and handled it very well. If there's one thing you can't really fault Rudy on it would be his role in 9/11.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Motivez had the same response, and it's a relevant one. However, the fact that approval numbers jumped means that people approved of the way he was handling it. I can't think of a single person I know in NJ who doesn't think Rudy did a good job in the aftermath of 9/11. Some people may have complaints of him as a mayor, but nobody really criticizes him for his work on 9/11. And that is essentially the point I was trying to make. Jokes were being made about him being charge of NYC during 9/11. First of all, he had nothing to do with planes being flown into a city. He was just a mayor. He couldn't have prevented that. His term was expiring and he got his term extended, with the willing permission of the new mayor, and he took charge and took control of the situation and handled it very well. If there's one thing you can't really fault Rudy on it would be his role in 9/11.

I think what baffles myself and others is trying to figure out what exactly he did after 9/11 that was so great. Everything I've heard is that he simply did the things a competent mayor should in the face of a disaster. In other words, he merely didn't fuck up. I don't understand showering praise on someone for simply doing their job as expected. Where is the part where he did an outstanding job substantively beyond expectation? Where is the part where he had a tough decision to make and made the right one? Where is the part where other men would have gone wrong, but he did well? Where is the part where people can look at him and say, "Wow, I wouldn't have thought of that" or "wow, I wouldn't have the balls to do that"?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I think what baffles myself and others is trying to figure out what exactly he did after 9/11 that was so great. Everything I've heard is that he simply did the things a competent mayor should in the face of a disaster. In other words, he merely didn't fuck up. I don't understand showering praise on someone for simply doing their job as expected. Where is the part where he did an outstanding job substantively beyond expectation? Where is the part where he had a tough decision to make and made the right one? Where is the part where other men would have gone wrong, but he did well? Where is the part where people can look at him and say, "Wow, I wouldn't have thought of that" or "wow, I wouldn't have the balls to do that"?

He did things to protect consumers from price gauging, which is anti-Republican I guess, but it helped. He was open and honest about everything that happened, which I think people needed to hear. He rolled up his sleeves and got shoulder to shoulder with the people and the families. There were reports as to how many hours he was awake, the man barely slept and worked harder than any other politician in NYC.

He receives criticism for the number of Firefighters dead. He gets some blame for that. He also gets some blame for ceasing the body searches and bringing in the heavy equipment to clear out the rubble after being told the timeline and sheer cost of keeping it going. So those would be the only two faults I can think of over 9/11. Everything else pictures him as being a superhuman Mayor who did an amazing job. I attribute a lot of the unity that occurred after Sept 11th to Rudy. To really pinpoint any one thing is like understating the sheer volume of what he was able to get done in such a short period of time. So yes, he didn't just not screw up, but he didn't not screw up while getting so much done in such a short period of time you're left in awe at how he was able to accomplish it. And I think people from the tri-state area recognize that and he's running on that platform without fully realizing that the rest of America wasn't there at the local level witnessing it, so he's just speaking to deaf ears.

If you look at Katrina, nobody in their right mind is praising the mayor of New Orleans. Huge disaster happened on their watch and it turned out bad. Rudy is the exact opposite. Throughout his entire term as mayor of NY he worked hard and he brought around a lot of changes that make people wonder how he was able to turn that city around so quickly. Then 9/11 and again you're just left in awe at how swiftly he was able to get things done. When Rudy was first elected to NYC much of the city was a huge shithole. He cleaned it up so well. Just walking down Times Square is enough to see what he did. NY is actually a place you can bring a family to now...

[Scrum]

It's kind of hard to compare the response of local officials in NYC after the largest terrorist attack on this country to the reaction of local officials in a massively poor area hit by a natural disaster.

The whole country got behind NYC after 9/11. Other states the feds.....not the same reaction to Katrina which was damage on a much broader scale.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrum

It's kind of hard to compare the response of local officials in NYC after the largest terrorist attack on this country to the reaction of local officials in a massively poor area hit by a natural disaster.

The whole country got behind NYC after 9/11. Other states the feds.....not the same reaction to Katrina which was damage on a much broader scale.

Everyone knew ahead of time about the natural disaster. The local officials didn't allow the feds into the state/city to help prepare and the whole country did rally behind Katrina. When NYC was hit it was similar. Manhattan is an island, all the bridges were essentially shut down. People left their cars in the roads and walked across the bridges/tunnels back to Jersey to get home. It was very hard to get supplies to rescue workers, etc. It was very similar. The biggest difference was that New Orleans had the ability to be better prepared since they knew they were going to be hit by a hurricane. The towers falling on a random day was not something Rudy expected to wake up to, unlike the hurricane.

[thomez]

Here is the responses of Ron Paul during the debate:

YouTube Video

[jimeigh]

i will be proud to use my first vote to support Ron Paul

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by jimeigh

i will be proud to use my first vote to support Ron Paul