S&P 500 tops 1500, Dow hits another record...

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

It is a flawed assumption. I guess my John Henry reference must have gone right over your young whippersnapper head.

It sure did.

Originally Posted by Stylerod

People have been worried about automation taking their jobs for over a century, probably more. And really it hasn't been a problem and probably will continue not to be.

Like I said, maybe outsourcing is the new automation. It's the same result...more productivity with fewer (american) workers.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Publius

The consistently rising net worth of the American family says otherwise.

And what about this expanding gap in wealth I keep hearing about?

[Publius]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

And what about this expanding gap in wealth I keep hearing about?

the rich are getting richer faster, but everyone is getting richer. Who cares?

[7960]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

And what about this expanding gap in wealth I keep hearing about?

what about it?

if a "poor" family doubles its money and a wealthy family doubles its money then the "gap" increased...........but both still doubled their money.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by 7960

what about it?

if a "poor" family doubles its money and a wealthy family doubles its money then the "gap" increased...........but both still doubled their money.

Okay, then maybe it would be more illuminating to compare the gap not in terms of net worth or dollars, but in terms of actual buying power or quality of life. That would iron out confusion due to inflation and whatnot.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Okay, then maybe it would be more illuminating to compare the gap not in terms of net worth or dollars, but in terms of actual buying power or quality of life. That would iron out confusion due to inflation and whatnot.

The quality of life difference between the average middle class American and the super rich American really isn't all that big. Most of the super-rich "perks" are things like having a driver or a private jet or designer clothing or someone that can do their shopping for them ... There really isn't much of anything readily available to the rich that isn't readily available to the middle class (like there was just a hundred and fifty years ago, like something as simple as ice cream), these days it is more just the quality OF that product, rather than the product itself.

In terms of things that really affect whether they have a livable life or a hard life, there really isn't much difference.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Publius

The quality of life difference between the average middle class American and the super rich American really isn't all that big. Most of the super-rich "perks" are things like having a driver or a private jet or designer clothing or someone that can do their shopping for them ... There really isn't much of anything readily available to the rich that isn't readily available to the middle class (like there was just a hundred and fifty years ago, like something as simple as ice cream), these days it is more just the quality OF that product, rather than the product itself.

In terms of things that really affect whether they have a livable life or a hard life, there really isn't much difference.

Ummm...I dunno how accurate that is. Middle class families often have serious lifestyle disadvantages like home foreclosures, job insecurity, bankruptcy due to lack of medical insurance, struggling to pay for college, poor education in public schools, two parents away instead of a stay at home mom, etc. It's not all private jets and caviar.

I'd be interested to see this real "lifestyle" gap comparing 50 years ago to now.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Ummm...I dunno how accurate that is. Middle class families often have serious lifestyle disadvantages like home foreclosures, job insecurity, bankruptcy due to lack of medical insurance, struggling to pay for college, poor education in public schools, two parents away instead of a stay at home mom, etc. It's not all private jets and caviar.

I'd be interested to see this real "lifestyle" gap comparing 50 years ago to now.

intentionally living beyond one's means is idiotic, and the cause of most of what you said just now.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Ummm...I dunno how accurate that is. Middle class families often have serious lifestyle disadvantages like home foreclosures, job insecurity, bankruptcy due to lack of medical insurance, struggling to pay for college, poor education in public schools, two parents away instead of a stay at home mom, etc. It's not all private jets and caviar.

I'd be interested to see this real "lifestyle" gap comparing 50 years ago to now.

do you think that middle class lifestyle has't improved in 50 years

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Publius

intentionally living beyond one's means is idiotic, and the cause of most of what you said just now.

What other than home foreclosures is necessarily caused by living beyond your means? And even home foreclosure isn't necessarily caused by that...if you lose your job or suffer a serious illness, you can lose your home even if it's a modest one for your income.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

What other than home foreclosures is necessarily caused by living beyond your means? And even home foreclosure isn't necessarily caused by that...if you lose your job or suffer a serious illness, you can lose your home even if it's a modest one for your income.

for one, the average middle class family doesn't declare bankruptcy because of medical expenses. Actually, to be technical, most of what you said doesn't happen to the AVERAGE middle class family, so your entire point is moot.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

do you think that middle class lifestyle has't improved in 50 years

I'm not sure...I've read some stuff arguing it hasn't, at least in certain respects, e.g., college tuition keeps going up with salaries not keeping up, young people are taking longer to get on their financial feet, fewer companies offering health insurance benefits, more bankruptcies even for people who have health insurance, entire generations of people being in trouble come retirement...you get the point.

I don't really have a strong opinion. I'm just trying to sort it out.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Publius

for one, the average middle class family doesn't declare bankruptcy because of medical expenses. Actually, to be technical, most of what you said doesn't happen to the AVERAGE middle class family, so your entire point is moot.

USATODAY.com - Middle class barely treads water

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

As Income Gap Widens, Uncertainty Spreads (washingtonpost.com)

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

USATODAY.com - Middle class barely treads water

"Middle-class families are taking on ruinous mortgages just to find a home in the right ZIP codes," Warren says.

Living outside of your means causes most of these problems

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

USATODAY.com - Middle class barely treads water

You're asking for trouble on that one. They'll point out "OMG 5 kids" and "College is optional" as well as "OMG CREDIT CARDS".

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

How the Middle Class Is Getting Screwed - New York Magazine

Back before the Second World War, in the teens and twenties, the richest one-half of one percent of Americans received 11 to 15 percent of all income, but from the fifties through the seventies, the income share of the superrich was reasonably cut back, by more than half. The rich were still plenty rich, and American capitalism worked fine.

Starting in the late eighties, however, the piece of the income pie taken each year by the rich has once again become as hugely disproportionate as it was in the twenties. Meanwhile, the median household income has gone up a measly 15 percent during the past quarter-century—and for the last five years it has actually dropped.

It used to be that when the economy thrived and productivity grew, pay for working people rose accordingly. Yet as the Times reported this past summer, the first six years of the 21st century look to be “the first sustained period of economic growth since World War II that fails to offer a prolonged increase in real wages for most workers.”

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I'm not sure...I've read some stuff arguing it hasn't, at least in certain respects, e.g., college tuition keeps going up with salaries not keeping up, young people are taking longer to get on their financial feet, fewer companies offering health insurance benefits, more bankruptcies even for people who have health insurance, entire generations of people being in trouble come retirement...you get the point.

I don't really have a strong opinion. I'm just trying to sort it out.

I think its a lifestyle difference, I can't believe that people chase real estate like they do in certain parts of this country. They take on mortages that over their heads and when something bad happens the wheels fall off.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I think its a lifestyle difference, I can't believe that people chase real estate like they do in certain parts of this country. They take on mortages that over their heads and when something bad happens the wheels fall off.

The whole problem with that is you're basically trying to herd the less than wealthy out of your *speaking of rich people* part of the country. People who have careers can't just quit and switch jobs...uproot their families and move when property values skyrocket. Why would people be required to "move where you can afford it" rather than "move where you can easily get to your existing job?"