Guiliani first to attack MSNBC over debate coverage

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

FNC flagrantly throws aside objectively and intentionally biases itself to the right as a matter of pride. MSNBC may sometimes not be completely objective, but there is no directive from the top to be purposely liberal. This is why people shit on FNC more than any other channel, regardless of how imperfect the other channels are. So long as FNC continues to purposely be right wing, they'll always get lots of scrutiny.

In other words, since FNC makes no effort whatsoever to check itself by design, other people have to keep them in check. The other so-called liberal outlets at least make some effort to check themselves by not trying to be overtly left biased.

This is the biggest bunch of BS out there. What is this based on?

[JaJae]

YouTube Video

How can someone say MSNBC isn't a Democratic propaganda outlet after watching this debate preshow?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Is Karl Rove your friend?
Do you believe in evolution?
What's the deal with corruption in your party?
"What is the difference between a Shiite and a Sunni?"
Loaded questions referring to standing up for woman's rights including wages, abortion, etc...
"Seriously, would it be good for America to have Bill Clinton back in the White House?"

All these questions were designed to trip up the candidates. They had to sort out the questions they wanted to ask and there seemed to be quite a bit of "gotcha" questions that Democrats wouldn't have gotten. The Dems got things like "What are you going to do about Healthcare?" Mostly questions that reflected the issues to promote their agendas. Republicans were asked questions in hopes of getting them to slip and embarrass themselves.

Only two of those questions are inappropriate, the one about Bill Clinton and the one about Karl Rove.

If a Republican candidate doesn't know the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite, they have no business running the country since Bush has gotten us involved in their civil war.

It is imperative that the next President have a cultural understanding of the region, moreso from the Republican side since they seem to think Iraq has gone swimmingly and the surge is a great thing, and all the rest of it.

Whether or not they believe in evolution is also important, I want to know that who I'm voting for believes in science and is not going to push evangelical dogma on our country through teaching bullshit like intelligent design, which is simply creationism masked as science.

The corruption question is also pertinent, there have been SO many Republican corruption scandals that seem to reach all levels in the party, and so many of them thrown in jail, it's valid to ask what the President intends to do about corruption in that party.

A question about a woman's right to choose is also very valid and worth knowing, considering it's one of the biggest issues facing America right now, and that equality among the sexes, while not a huge issue any more, is still a valid question.

Two of them were bullshit and pointless, but they weren't worse than Fox News' use of the question mark as a way to make a statement, or their massive propaganda campaign against all things liberal...

[motivez]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

This is the biggest bunch of BS out there. What is this based on?

The facts.

All one needs to do is watch the network to realize what he said is accurate.

Pretty much everyone who takes an objective look at the network coverage comes to the same conclusion, whether it's misrepresenting facts, outright lying about circumstances, doing everything in their power to make Democrats look bad, there's an organizational bias at the network level, that was the entire reason for the network in the first place, to offset a perceived (yet inaccurate stereotype) of the media as having a "liberal bias" by having a conservative network.

The fact that people are trying to paint it as somehow independent and fair and balanced is simply laughable.

You can check out some screenshots here if you want some examples of some of the stuff I listed above:

Welcome to Pottersville: Fox News at Its Finest.

There's far more than that, and some of those are IMO fine, but the way they frame SO much of their stuff makes it very obvious.

[Donkey®]

You know, this is the EXACT reason the Democrats decided they didn't want to be on FOX. Let's say MSNBC is biased. You guys have been harping it for years so it was well known. The Republicans could have EASILY said "no, we're not going on MSNBC" but they did it anyway. So, whatever they got is what they deserve. Just like Clinton got when he went on FOX. With all that said, you guys blasted the Democrats left and right for not going on FOX. To me, seems like the Democrats made a smart move and the Republicans didn't.

[6SpeedTA95]

I've watched a fair amount of that debate it was a crock of shit. They tried to make him look like an ass.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

With all that said, you guys blasted the Democrats left and right for not going on FOX. To me, seems like the Democrats made a smart move and the Republicans didn't.

If the Republicans only did their debates on Fox there would have been a much louder outcry over it than the Dems received for canceling on Fox. Fox has a history of doing fair debates. MSNBC no longer does. The difference here is that the Republicans had the balls to go on MSNBC and do a debate and they got politically ambushed by a far left news outlet. If Democrats did a debate on Fox and the questions sounded like they came from Stormfront I'd have a problem with that as well.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by motivez

The facts.


You can check out some screenshots here if you want some examples of some of the stuff I listed above:

Welcome to Pottersville: Fox News at Its Finest.

There's far more than that, and some of those are IMO fine, but the way they frame SO much of their stuff makes it very obvious.

Looking at those screenshots taken from FNC, it is laughable that anyone even tries to compare Fox's bias to MSNBC's or CNN's. Like I've said before, they are on a whole new level. It is a joke of a network, and it is humorous that anyone working for that channel calls themselves 'journalists'.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

to offset a perceived (yet inaccurate stereotype) of the media as having a "liberal bias" by having a conservative network.

You honestly believe the other networks are fair? And that stereotypes are inaccurate?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

You honestly believe the other networks are fair? And that stereotypes are inaccurate?

I don't believe there's any kind of bias at the organizational level for the other television networks that's anywhere close to the level of Fox News, because it's not supported by the facts. I never said I thought they were 'fair', but certainly moreso than Fox by a large amount.

The closest you'll come is the New York Times, but that's not a TV Network.

Of course you can point out Olbermann, but he's a recent development in a multi-year long effort to label the media as 'liberal hollywood elite' (as if there's something wrong with being from hollywood, being liberal, or being elite) when there's just not the case.. and before him (or after? I forget because I don't watch tv news that often) is a former Republican Congressman..

I doubt anyone can point to an incident on CNN in the last few weeks that is blatantly left bias (probably because no one watches them ), although I can easily point out the fact that they have someone like Glenn Beck spouting conservative propaganda from his lips on a daily basis..

The one incident in "recent" memory that comes up was a technical glitch in CNN that resulted in an X for a split second over Cheney's face, but anyone who points to that as comparable to Fox is kidding themselves.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

If the Republicans only did their debates on Fox there would have been a much louder outcry over it than the Dems received for canceling on Fox. Fox has a history of doing fair debates. MSNBC no longer does. The difference here is that the Republicans had the balls to go on MSNBC and do a debate and they got politically ambushed by a far left news outlet. If Democrats did a debate on Fox and the questions sounded like they came from Stormfront I'd have a problem with that as well.

Lord. Look, if "they had the balls" then they should be able to deal with the consequences. You won't see the same thing happen to the Democrats because they are smarter apparently. BTW, there was NO "outcry" over the Democrats cancelling...just a bunch of whining from the right.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't believe there's any kind of bias at the organizational level for the other television networks that's anywhere close to the level of Fox News, because it's not supported by the facts. I never said I thought they were 'fair', but certainly moreso than Fox by a large amount.

The closest you'll come is the New York Times, but that's not a TV Network.

Of course you can point out Olbermann, but he's a recent development in a multi-year long effort to label the media as 'liberal hollywood elite' (as if there's something wrong with being from hollywood, being liberal, or being elite) when there's just not the case.. and before him (or after? I forget because I don't watch tv news that often) is a former Republican Congressman..

I doubt anyone can point to an incident on CNN in the last few weeks that is blatantly left bias (probably because no one watches them ), although I can easily point out the fact that they have someone like Glenn Beck spouting conservative propaganda from his lips on a daily basis..

The one incident in "recent" memory that comes up was a technical glitch in CNN that resulted in an X for a split second over Cheney's face, but anyone who points to that as comparable to Fox is kidding themselves.

I have posted an extensive study, the MOST extensive study into media bias that has ever been done, emperical evidence and the formulations on how they drew their conclusions etc. If you haven't read it you need to.

[trevxenemy]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Is Karl Rove your friend?
Do you believe in evolution?
What's the deal with corruption in your party?
"What is the difference between a Shiite and a Sunni?"
Loaded questions referring to standing up for woman's rights including wages, abortion, etc...
"Seriously, would it be good for America to have Bill Clinton back in the White House?"

All these questions were designed to trip up the candidates. They had to sort out the questions they wanted to ask and there seemed to be quite a bit of "gotcha" questions that Democrats wouldn't have gotten. The Dems got things like "What are you going to do about Healthcare?" Mostly questions that reflected the issues to promote their agendas. Republicans were asked questions in hopes of getting them to slip and embarrass themselves.

While those questions are kind of stupid.. Dems aren't innocent by any means, especially corruption. Both Dems and Republicans are corrupt - they accept tons of money from lobbyists.

That's why I'm voting Ron Paul - he won't accept money from them.

[motivez]

I must admit being perplexed by a Libertarian refusing to accept campaign contributions from lobbyists.. it seems to me that people with similar interests pooling their money together in an effort to affect the change they want to see is directly in line with the Libertarian philosophy of personal responsibility.

Am I wrong?

[trevxenemy]

Originally Posted by motivez

I must admit being perplexed by a Libertarian refusing to accept campaign contributions from lobbyists.. it seems to me that people with similar interests pooling their money together in an effort to affect the change they want to see is directly in line with the Libertarian philosophy of personal responsibility.

Am I wrong?

Wrong? No. Ron Paul doesn't accept money from corporations/political "action" groups. Just donations on his website, etc. Personally, that's my favorite trait about him(outside of him being libertarian, of course). If I were to run for President, I'd do it the same way. They're like "oh, hi.. here's a million bucks, please pass legislation to give my company these jobs overseas, or 2 million in return thx bye"

[Donkey®]

Doesn't matter if Paul accepts those contributions or not...he can't get anything passed for them anyway.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Is Karl Rove your friend?
Do you believe in evolution?
What's the deal with corruption in your party?
"What is the difference between a Shiite and a Sunni?"
Loaded questions referring to standing up for woman's rights including wages, abortion, etc...
"Seriously, would it be good for America to have Bill Clinton back in the White House?"

All these questions were designed to trip up the candidates. They had to sort out the questions they wanted to ask and there seemed to be quite a bit of "gotcha" questions that Democrats wouldn't have gotten. The Dems got things like "What are you going to do about Healthcare?" Mostly questions that reflected the issues to promote their agendas. Republicans were asked questions in hopes of getting them to slip and embarrass themselves.

Both debates were set to trip of the candidates, they even said so in both debates that certain questions were designed specifically for that...

The evolution debate is very VERY critical to who we are sending to the white house, you don't think it's relevant whether a candidate believes evolution is real or a hoax?

The Bill Clinton was a softball, it wasn't tricky and it didn't hurt any GOP candidate

Sunni and Shia is incredibly important for someone who wants to lead the fight against terrorism

The Democrats complained louder about Brian Williams in his MSNBC debate format

Saying the democrats will basically go extinct if they don't win in 08 (wtf they just won in 06!)

Media Matters - MSNBC debate questions on Iraq, immigration, and national security based on false premises

lots more

I find it interesting that the GOP is whining that MSNBC was so hard for the Republicans, just as hard as a Fox News debate would be for Democrats...THE DEMOCRATS ALREADY HAD A TERRIBLE TIME WITH "FAR LEFT" MSNBC

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

just as hard as a Fox News debate would be for Democrats...

Poor argument...purely speculative...there are no facts to back up such a statement.