Girl stoned to death in Iraq

Kytro · 05-06-2007, 07:53 PM

Boing Boing: Iraq: Kurdish girl stoned to death, mob films it on cameraphones

In a short mobile video clip which appears to have been taken by locals at seen of the murder, the girl is seen being ambushed on her way home by a group of up to 1000 men who were waiting for her to return; the men killed her in the most brutal way possible, by throwing large stones on her head.

I really, really hope something is done to prevent this sort of thing in the future. I am not sure what can be done, but the fact that 1000 men can turn up to do this shows there is still a great deal of progress to be made.

Warning: contains disturbing links.

DosEquis · 05-06-2007, 08:04 PM

That place is seriously fucked up.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 05-06-2007, 09:26 PM

How can you see something like that and not want to be a total isolationist? Democracy won't fix these people, nor will leaving Islam (these weren't Muslims). They obviously have deeper problems. America should completely wall itself off from these half apes and use only overwhelming power to totally destroy them if need be.

This is exhibit #9879834 why Saddam had to be so brutal.

DosEquis · 05-06-2007, 09:26 PM

That kind of thing serves as decent motivation to have the opinion of 'screw them' and leave them high and dry. They just kill each other anyway for dumb shit reasons.

motivez · 05-06-2007, 09:37 PM

You can't force people to "civilize" as evidenced by the multitude of failed British attempts to do so through colonialism..

But this illustrates why we're not going to see the kind of "success" in Iraq we were promised from the getgo.. the cultural divide is far more massive than anyone in this Administration could have ever imagined (if they had taken the time to learn about the culture in the first place..) and it's not going to be fixed in the short term.

Kytro · 05-06-2007, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

You can't force people to "civilize" as evidenced by the multitude of failed British attempts to do so through colonialism..

The brits went about it the wrong way. Most change in the world occurs through chance rather than through choice (large scale change). In other words events have random impacts that lead to large scale change. It is hard to plan what direction the change will take.

Originally Posted by motivez

But this illustrates why we're not going to see the kind of "success" in Iraq we were promised from the getgo.. the cultural divide is far more massive than anyone in this Administration could have ever imagined (if they had taken the time to learn about the culture in the first place..) and it's not going to be fixed in the short term.

In order in increase the chance of success we need to apply more control and leave less to chance.

One option would be to basically to educate all children outside of Iraq and return them around 20. This would have to be coupled with re-education in Iraq and a police state.

Not a cheap thing, or nice thing, but the thought and ideals behind the actions would not be affected much by rational thought

trevxenemy · 05-07-2007, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

How can you see something like that and not want to be a total isolationist? Democracy won't fix these people, nor will leaving Islam (these weren't Muslims). They obviously have deeper problems. America should completely wall itself off from these half apes and use only overwhelming power to totally destroy them if need be.

This is exhibit #9879834 why Saddam had to be so brutal.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Scrum · 05-07-2007, 01:10 AM

That's fucking sick.

Those animals should be put down so they don't infect the gene pool.
How anyone could do something that horrible is beyond me.

Kytro · 05-07-2007, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by Scrum

That's fucking sick.

Those animals should be put down so they don't infect the gene pool.
How anyone could do something that horrible is beyond me.

It isn't genes that are to blame, it is culture.

How they can do it is is obvious, they consider her continuing to live to be abhorrent (different social values). The problem is we shouldn't allow culture like this to exist, it should be destroyed (though there are parts of the overall culture that are fine).

Linzyhop · 05-07-2007, 10:26 AM

first of all i'm not defending the men what so ever, but stoning of women for "indecent acts" has been going on for thousands of years. They believe by killing her, they are protecting the honor of her family.

personally the fact that this practice has been going on for such a long time is appalling, but how do you go in there and make them understand it's appalling?... they don't see it as such.

Scrum · 05-07-2007, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

but how do you go in there and make them understand it's appalling?... they don't see it as such.

A few hundred stones to the head should help them understand.

Linzyhop · 05-07-2007, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

A few hundred stones to the head should help them understand.

no scrum. see that wouldn't make them see it's appalling. that would make them see you as the enemy for trying to change their way of life.

great solution.

Scrum · 05-07-2007, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

no scrum. see that wouldn't make them see it's appalling. that would make them see you as the enemy for trying to change their way of life.

great solution.

We could remove all the stones in the ME and replace them with flowers.

Many already see us as an enemy for existing.
Some of these people only understand one thing. It's part of their culture.

Linzyhop · 05-07-2007, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

We could remove all the stones in the ME and replace them with flowers.

Some of these people only understand one thing. It's part of their culture.

well jeez. then let's just leave the ME for good cause we'll never be able to do any good at all, since it's just part of their culture to never understand.

Scrum · 05-07-2007, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

then let's just leave the ME for good cause we'll never be able to do any good at all, since it's just part of their culture to never understand.

Agreed.

Lets stop buying oil from them and stop supporting Israel with weapons. Our problems would vanish.

So what's you solution? How do you teach a culture this is wrong?

Linzyhop · 05-07-2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

Agreed.

Lets stop buying oil from them and stop supporting Israel with weapons. Our problems would vanish.

So what's you solution? How do you teach a culture this is wrong?

i didn't say i had a solution. i don't think there is one. changing the morals of a culture takes decades. maybe start by teaching the children about life and equality.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 05-07-2007, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

but how do you go in there and make them understand it's appalling?

You don't, because it's impossible, and if you ever get yourself into a situation where your success depends on achieving the impossible, you're a dumb ass named George W. Bush.

Stylerod · 05-07-2007, 01:59 PM

There isn't much to be done that isn't already happening. It's a smaller world. There are camera's everywhere now. People can't hide in their communities or countries as much anymore and just do as they please. The world will show their outrage and maybe those people (or the real people in charge) will take a step back and figure that "if everyone in the world thinks we are barbarians for doing this type of thing, maybe we are."

Maybe, just maybe, this video alone will help change things over there. We can only hope.

Kytro · 05-07-2007, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

personally the fact that this practice has been going on for such a long time is appalling, but how do you go in there and make them understand it's appalling?... they don't see it as such.

It is almost impossible to "make people understand". It is a point view (though not acceptable).

Kytro · 05-07-2007, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Maybe, just maybe, this video alone will help change things over there. We can only hope.

Actually we can do more, but I am not sure that people would accept it as morally ok to forceably change a culture considering the loss of freedoms and rights it would require.