France's election

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

There's already another thread about the riots, but what about the other aspects:

1) Royal lost the women's vote. Say anything about Hillary's chances?

2) The French elected a staunchly pro-American candidate? Why?

3) Isn't it interesting how France has actual socialists running? That would be unimaginable here.

IMO, anyone counting on women to carry Hillary is wrong. Hillary is such a polarizing figure, and people's dislike for her transcends gender. And let's not forget religiously conservative women who might actually be uncomfortable electing a woman, not to mention one who is seen as a liberal and associated with philanderer husband.

The fact they elected an pro-American candidate shows that the French aren't as anti-American as the American right would have you believe. In the same way some French treat America as the boogy man, the American right treats allegedly anti-American Europeans as the boogy man. In reality, most French are not anti-American, despite the stupid bumper stickers and freedom fries.

I appreciate the fact that unabashed socialists still seriously compete in Europe. I think it's healthy. The socialists have their way, people get sick of them, and then the staunch capitalists have their way, and people get sick of them. The pendulum swings back and forth, and at the end of the day it evens out pretty well. In America, even though the pendulum swings, it doesn't swing very widely. We get the extreme right swings, but never the extreme left swings to balance them out.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

We get the extreme right swings, but never the extreme left swings to balance them out.

THANK GOD!!!!!

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

The fact they elected an pro-American candidate shows that the French aren't as anti-American as the American right would have you believe.

That's not a stereotype led by the American right.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

That's not a stereotype led by the American right.

Who else is behind it?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Who else is behind it?

Nobody is 'behind' it. It's not some propaganda piece. It's a fairly common belief among all Americans, mostly driven by those who visit France and come back complaining of their snobbery. The French-canadians in Quebec also don't help the issue much. This isn't some conspiracy to make Americans hate the French.

[motivez]

Maybe not a conspiracy, but certainly an effort after their refusal to back our "plan" (and I use that word reluctantly) for Iraq.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Nobody is 'behind' it. It's not some propaganda piece. It's a fairly common belief among all Americans, mostly driven by those who visit France and come back complaining of their snobbery. The French-canadians in Quebec also don't help the issue much. This isn't some conspiracy to make Americans hate the French.

There are two different things at play here...one, the common belief among Americans that the French are snobby, and two, the belief among the right that the French oppose the Bush admin's policy because they're anti American.

Snobby stereotypes are bipartisan and have existed for a while. But blaming French opposition to US policy on anti-Americanism is a creature of the right.

The right has an interest in promoting the anti American stereotype because it deflects criticism of their Iraq policy. Instead of having to address French criticism of our Iraq policy on the merits, they instead dismiss it as meritless anti-Americanism.

Here's a bit about it...

The Crisis in the Alliance

Two of the most commonly suggested explanations for French and German policy—commercial interests and anti-Americanism—are incomplete at best [...]

It is also hard to ascribe French and German policy to "anti-American" motivations. To be sure, anti-Americanism exists in both countries, and is clearly growing. But as a primary explanation for why France and Germany are opposing U.S. policy in Iraq while other governments in Europe are supporting it, "anti-Americanism" does not hold up. Only 15 months ago, when the United States used force in Afghanistan, France and Germany strongly supported the action, which was backed by 73 percent and 65 percent of their respective populations. A Social Democratic/Green majority in the German Bundestag supported sending 3,900 German combat troops to fight alongside the Americans, and a Socialist-Communist-Green coalition in France authorized the sending of French troops. Clearly the degree of European support for or opposition to U.S. policy has something to do with what that policy is, as opposed to a systematic opposition to whatever the United States does.

Now given that, why would anyone but the right try to promote the anti-American stereotype?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

There are two different things at play here...one, the common belief among Americans that the French are snobby, and two, the belief among the right that the French oppose the Bush admin's policy because they're anti American.

Most of Europe opposes the Bush admin's policy. That has nothing to do with being anti-American. France falls into that same category.

I know nothing about being anti-American, they just don't like our policies. They never have. That has absolutely nothing to do with being 'pushed' by the right.

Your assumption that the French voted a more US-friendly president means they like America more than we thought I think is a flawed assumption. They very well might have chosen the lesser of two evils...you have an outright Socialist against a "US-friendly' candidate? Hah, not much of a choice there. Secondly, Germany also voted in a more US-friendly president, and we see how much that really made a difference regarding our international affairs.

[RMNIXON]

Hillary would probably be a Right-Winger in France?

But this is a big shift for the right in terms of economic reform. I should hope that is what the majority wanted? I would be curious about how much she lost because she was a woman or because she was simply the statis quo protectionist of the current system?

Also take note the standard anti-Americanism did not save her!

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Hillary would probably be a Right-Winger in France?

Certainly way to the right of Royal.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Certainly way to the right of Royal.

I don't know that 'way to the right' would be correct; maybe slightly to the right

[Thorgrim]

the snob claim comes from ignorant people

What happens is that middle class americans try to visit the very upper class parts of Paris, an ultra-expensive city, and get mad when the French ultra-elite act superior

When, in reality, if some Romanian middle-class guy with a bad accent went into a high class store in Beverly Hills they probably wouldn't even let him in

Americans are arrogant too, as are many rich people in the elite circles, it's just we can't understand why every country won't bow down to us just because we're American...if you go to the French countryside they are overwhelmingly friendly, just like if that Romanian went to Iowan coffee shop