Bush's address to the NAACP references Lincoln and indirectly slavery

tbone · 07-21-2006, 04:18 PM

Given several less than flattering documentaries on Lincoln lately and the obvious reference to Lincoln ending slavery, this was a somewhat ballsy avenue to go down for his first speech to the NAACP. He got a chilly reception, but not due to these comments.

Bush called it a tragedy that "the party of Abraham Lincoln let go of its historical ties with the African-American community."

"For too long, my party wrote off the African-American vote, and many African-Americans wrote off the Republican Party," he said. "That history has prevented us from working together when we agree on great goals."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4062093.html

TekDragon · 07-21-2006, 04:21 PM

It doesn't suprise me that the race in America that commits the highest portion of crime per capita and consumes the highest amount of welfare per capita would vote Democrat.

Thorgrim · 07-21-2006, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by TekDragon

It doesn't suprise me that the race in America that commits the highest portion of crime per capita and consumes the highest amount of welfare per capita would vote Democrat.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone beat a horse's leg bloody before a race and he finished last

TekDragon · 07-21-2006, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

It wouldn't surprise me if someone beat a horse's leg bloody before a race and he finished last

Sorry, i'm not quite getting the analogy. It's the end of work and i'm tired. Can you explain?

Donkey® · 07-21-2006, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by TekDragon

It doesn't suprise me that the race in America that commits the highest portion of crime per capita and consumes the highest amount of welfare per capita would vote Democrat.

So you hate muslims AND blacks. Anyone else?

Thorgrim · 07-21-2006, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by TekDragon

Sorry, i'm not quite getting the analogy. It's the end of work and i'm tired. Can you explain?

Blacks were enslaved, put into miserable conditions, segregated and terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan

Say what you want about hardships of Italians (they atleast had the Mafia) or the Irish (they congregated in NY/Boston and formed their own escape from English prejudicde) they never faced anything like the Klan killing thousands of them for the unforgivable sin of trying to better themselves

They are last for a reason, and its not genetic, and if you think it is, you're a racist

TekDragon · 07-21-2006, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So you hate muslims AND blacks. Anyone else?

So because I identify acts of terror on western countries as being predominately commited by muslims means I hate them? Because I am willing to accept FBI crime data that indicates blacks are far more likely to commit crimes than whites I hate them?

Holy shit.. how does that sand you got your head buried in taste?

TekDragon · 07-21-2006, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Blacks were enslaved, put into miserable conditions, segregated and terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan

Say what you want about hardships of Italians (they atleast had the Mafia) or the Irish (they congregated in NY/Boston and formed their own escape from English prejudicde) they never faced anything like the Klan killing thousands of them for the unforgivable sin of trying to better themselves

They are last for a reason, and its not genetic, and if you think it is, you're a racist

I live in a city near the black section of town. I don't believe it's genetics keeping them down. It's culture and choice.

By the way, the reason I oppose affirmative action and why I oppose the Democratic Party in regards to blacks is becase I DON'T think blacks are inferior. I DON'T think they are innately stupid. Therefore I DON'T think they should be given a helping hand at EVERY point in the process from getting an education to getting a job.

Thorgrim · 07-21-2006, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by TekDragon

I live in a city near the black section of town. I don't believe it's genetics keeping them down. It's culture and choice.

People choose to be poor...thats funny

And where did that culture come from? I am guessing white America keeping them down for centuries didn't have anything to do with it

Donkey® · 07-21-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by TekDragon

So because I identify acts of terror on western countries as being predominately commited by muslims means I hate them? Because I am willing to accept FBI crime data that indicates blacks are far more likely to commit crimes than whites I hate them?

Holy shit.. how does that sand you got your head buried in taste?

You make yourself look ignorant because you throw out these grand accusations with a brush that reaches far and wide....UN being anti-semetic....blacks and crime...muslims and terrorism...without looking into the reasons WHY those statistics are like that to begin with.

motivez · 07-21-2006, 05:08 PM

I don't support Affirmative Action either. I think it's a racist policy. Do the white people who are now a minority in several states get to benefit from it? I bet not.

No employer, no school, no anyone should be forced to select someone for a position in ANYTHING because of government required racial quotas.

Now, I don't think that people should be able to deny someone employment soley based on the color of their skin, but they should certainly be able to select whoever they believe would best be able to do the job.

If that person happens to be white, so be it. If black, so be it. There's no reason that a business would normally want to hire someone that's not going to do the best possible job for them

TekDragon · 07-21-2006, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

People choose to be poor...thats funny

And where did that culture come from? I am guessing white America keeping them down for centuries didn't have anything to do with it

I'll walk down the street tomorrow to the dozens of blacks standing around on the street corners and ask them what their doing and why they don't have jobs.

I'm sure i'll hear a bunch of uneducated cussing, some racist remarks but... no... I don't think i'll hear a single one of them say "Because a white person told me I have to stand here".

Scrum · 07-21-2006, 05:21 PM

I saw that speech and was surprised he brought that up.

I thought most understood that Lincoln didn't really free the slaves?

tbone · 07-21-2006, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by TekDragon

It doesn't suprise me that the race in America that commits the highest portion of crime per capita and consumes the highest amount of welfare per capita would vote Democrat.

Nice.......way to use your perception to further a stereotype.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-21-2006, 05:25 PM

This was not his first speech to the NAACP he spoke in 2000 before he was president.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-21-2006, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't support Affirmative Action either. I think it's a racist policy. Do the white people who are now a minority in several states get to benefit from it? I bet not.

No employer, no school, no anyone should be forced to select someone for a position in ANYTHING because of government required racial quotas.

Now, I don't think that people should be able to deny someone employment soley based on the color of their skin, but they should certainly be able to select whoever they believe would best be able to do the job.

If that person happens to be white, so be it. If black, so be it. There's no reason that a business would normally want to hire someone that's not going to do the best possible job for them

My fellow administrator has hit the nail on the head

Well said.

tbone · 07-21-2006, 05:38 PM

Your right, this was Bush's first time addressing the NAACP as President. He did address them before his election in 2000 and before they ran a critical ad about him. Here is some of their "bad blood."

In the 2000 presidential campaign, the NAACP's National Voter Fund ran a television advertisement against Bush. The ad featured a daughter of James Byrd, a black man who was dragged to death . It said Bush refused her pleas for a hate-crime law when he was governor of Texas.

Then, just before the 2004 election, the Internal Revenue Service began looking into the NAACP's tax-exempt status after a speech by the NAACP chairman, Julian Bond, that was largely critical of Bush's policies. Political campaigning is prohibited under the NAACP's tax-exempt status, but the group said the audit amounted to a political smear campaign.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...address_naacp/

Thorgrim · 07-21-2006, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't support Affirmative Action either. I think it's a racist policy. Do the white people who are now a minority in several states get to benefit from it? I bet not.

No employer, no school, no anyone should be forced to select someone for a position in ANYTHING because of government required racial quotas.

Now, I don't think that people should be able to deny someone employment soley based on the color of their skin, but they should certainly be able to select whoever they believe would best be able to do the job.

If that person happens to be white, so be it. If black, so be it. There's no reason that a business would normally want to hire someone that's not going to do the best possible job for them

It's not racist, racists believe that one race is genetically superior to another and/or discrimination other races, and/or have an adverse judgement on members of a race beforehand based on their color

AA was not meant to benefit minorities, it was meant to benefit disadvantaged minorities, that is why Asians in general do not qualify

Also, government racial quotas don't exist, they are illegal in the United States, thats a Hannity Myth

People should be allowed to select who they think is best...in an ideal society, which we do not live in...

What is best? Have 100 people in a room one day waiting for one job spot...one day you have one interviewer, the other day you have another, if they all responded to the same post looking posting qualifications required, chances are they are similiar, and it comes down to a tough call. Chances are they'd pick different people, then who is the best? Choice A or Choice B? What if the interviewer had a bad day, does that mean whoever he picked was the best?

President Bush picked Michael Brown to run FEMA, was he the best choice?

Best is subjective, lets use an objective term: qualified

AA requires that the black woman or whatever be qualified, if the company wants someone "better" than what the black woman has to offer, then they should raise the qualifications needed.

There is another problem with your "criticism" of AA...it has been an amazing success, black employment has skyrocketed, the only downside is that some white people make some jokes and some blacks get offended, thats all. The US economy has not suffered, and most importantly, businesses like IBM have embraced AA and plainly stated that the government goals has helped them become a better company.

motivez · 07-21-2006, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

What is best? Have 100 people in a room one day waiting for one job spot...one day you have one interviewer, the other day you have another, if they all responded to the same post looking posting qualifications required, chances are they are similiar, and it comes down to a tough call. Chances are they'd pick different people, then who is the best? Choice A or Choice B? What if the interviewer had a bad day, does that mean whoever he picked was the best?

You shouldn't structure an entire system around the idea that the "interviewer" might be having a bad day or that different interviewers might select different people. That should be their perogative.

The point is that the business should be able to make that decision for themselves, and not have to select someone who's black simply to maintain a quota.[/quote]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

President Bush picked Michael Brown to run FEMA, was he the best choice?

Probably not, but a business should be able to make that decision for themselves, even if it's a bad one. That's the whole idea, a business succeeding or failing on its own merits. Bad leadership leads to bad shit happening.

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Best is subjective, lets use an objective term: qualified

AA requires that the black woman or whatever be qualified, if the company wants someone "better" than what the black woman has to offer, then they should raise the qualifications needed.

What if it's an empty position and they think that a person's specific skillset would be better suited to the job than a black person because of their specific work history, but on paper they have the same "qualifications"?

Why should any business be forced to select someone they don't feel is the best person for the job? They shouldn't.

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

There is another problem with your "criticism" of AA...it has been an amazing success, black employment has skyrocketed, the only downside is that some white people make some jokes and some blacks get offended, thats all. The US economy has not suffered, and most importantly, businesses like IBM have embraced AA and plainly stated that the government goals has helped them become a better company.

It's not just jobs, it's about things like school applications and business contracts, etc. Why should "minority owned companies" be granted contracts if they can't afford to do the job better than someone else, for cheaper, etc, solely based on the color of their skin?

Why should some minority who did not work as hard as say, I, or you did, get a position in a school over you or I simply because of the color of their skin?

It's a racist policy because it says to all blacks out there "You're too inferior to succeed on your own without our artificially propping your ethnicity up and giving you more opportunities than everyone else has"