A woman, irrational?

[IminWonderland]

I don't know.

Tell me if this is irrational anger:

I just got done writing a paper for a class, it's a final, I have to turn it in Monday. I asked my Husband to give me 5 minutes to listen to it to tell me if it's good. He agrees, turns the tv down. I read 2.5 pages of my 8 page paper *DOUBLE SPACED!*, and when I break in a sentence, I hear him snoring.


He fucking fell asleep? Thanks alot jack ass. I can't get enough time to review a paper? WTFever.

:cutabitch:

[Roonie]

What was the topic I am listen..i........n..................g............. ....snore........................snore

Oh mighty Goddess of women, please forgive me for laughing at this story.

It reminds me of the time I asked my husband to read over a double spaced 10 page report I did. He had to have pretended to read it, handed it back to me and said it was fine. I read it over again and noticed that one of my paragraphs was COMPLETE gibberish and didn't make an ounce of sense. Men.

[7960]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I don't know.

Tell me if this is irrational anger:

I just got done writing a paper for a class, it's a final, I have to turn it in Monday. I asked my Husband to give me 5 minutes to listen to it to tell me if it's good. He agrees, turns the tv down. I read 2.5 pages of my 8 page paper *DOUBLE SPACED!*, and when I break in a sentence, I hear him snoring.

He fucking fell asleep? Thanks alot jack ass. I can't get enough time to review a paper? WTFever.

:cutabitch:

Nothing he did was irrational. Maybe you should write more interesting papers.

Originally Posted by 03 white zx3

It reminds me of the time I asked my husband to read over a double spaced 10 page report I did. He had to have pretended to read it, handed it back to me and said it was fine. I read it over again and noticed that one of my paragraphs was COMPLETE gibberish and didn't make an ounce of sense. Men.

Maybe he thought that's how you meant it to be.

Originally Posted by 7960

Nothing he did was irrational. Maybe you should write more interesting papers.






Maybe he thought that's how you meant it to be.

A man not understanding the question? That's unpossible!!

[ballz2wallz]

That's awesome. Give him a break, he works hard.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

That's awesome. Give him a break, he works hard.

I didn't get that mad about it. I left the house and cooled off, and then when I came home I told him that he irritated me falling asleep....he said he didn't mean it.

You're right though, he does work hard. I gave him the break.

In retrospect, it's funny, when it doesn't happen to you.

My paper IS interesting, it's just not on a topic that interests him.

It's about the debate on the Canon of Literature for Western Civilization.

[Kytro]

My wife starts asking if her assignment is making sense, but I have to lookup every third word in the dictionary and then wikipedia, then I am just confused

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by Kytro

My wife starts asking if her assignment is making sense, but I have to lookup every third word in the dictionary and then wikipedia, then I am just confused

That makes me sad in a way. I think my Husband gets jeleous about me having an education now. He could totally go to school if he wanted, and I've always encouraged him, bu he's not interested. So, it's hard, but I don't want to rub it in his face, but I think he's smart enough to understand what I'm writing....I just wish he thought he was smart enough.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

That makes me sad in a way.
I think my Husband gets jeleous about me having an education now. He could totally go to school if he wanted, and I've always encouraged him, bu he's not interested. So, it's hard, but I don't want to rub it in his face, but I think he's smart enough to understand what I'm writing....I just wish he thought he was smart enough.

I'm not sure about your circumstances. I am reasonably well educated, just not about nanotech nity grity and the names of processes and surface sceince.

I have no issues with the concepts, but the detailed explanation goes over my head

[JaJae]

I get bored when people read their papers to me too. I prefer to read them myself. He can also check for grammar/spelling mistakes better that way. Next time hand it to him.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by Kytro

I'm not sure about your circumstances. I am reasonably well educated, just not about nanotech nity grity and the names of processes and surface sceince.

I have no issues with the concepts, but the detailed explanation goes over my head

He graduated HS ane everything, but, he doesn't like school like I do. I'm an English major, and he's made comments to me that he thinks that I speak "above" him purposely to point out that I'm now a college graduate, and he isn't.

But, in my own defense, I would never try to speak above his head purposely, but I can't help but use the expanded vocabulary I've come upon from school.

It's not like what my paper about was hands off, it's a simple concept. I'd post it, but I fear reprecussions.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I get bored when people read their papers to me too. I prefer to read them myself. He can also check for grammar/spelling mistakes better that way. Next time hand it to him.

I'll try that next time!

[7960]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I'd post it, but I fear reprecussions.

we'll rip it apart for you.

post it....... deal with the repercussions.

[IminWonderland]

Blowing up the Canon

How do we know what to read these days? Going into any bookstore is to be a pebble amongst grains of sand. Shelves stacked high and overhead, choosing a book to read is a more debatable practice than ever before. Going into a store and asking the bookstore clerk “What is a book in this store that I must read?” can gather infinity of answers leading to a paperback novel, and it may even reveal itself as a “classic” on the cover. There is not a responsible individual for the list of books deemed important, many scholars have come together on several occasions with the purpose of telling Western Civilization what they should be reading. This list, the “Canon” of Western Literature has become a living list, with additions, subtractions, and multiplications by Authors. The problem with the scholars giving this list is that it has now become debatable, now that more voices than ever are able to lend what they think is important to read.

Two sides to this debate, the first I will discuss is the Traditionalist view of the Canon. The Traditionalist views the Canon as a list of exemplary works that Western Civilazation can read, and essentially get caught up with what has been going on since “The Odyssey”. From Homer, to its end in the Post Modern Era, it lists what is thought to be the best and brightest works. The ideas contained in these works are priceless, and recreated by others, even those with out the talent to back the idea up. The archetypal ideas in the pages and the morals and lessons reflect what has been important to man. A Traditionalist may even argue that by reading this list of works is the path to civility in culture, and to know . The works show continuity through time, it shows us where we have been, and where we have ended up. Tackling universal issues in each one, scholars of the Traditionalist view of the Canon see them as a way for humanity to figure itself out. The works on the list have influenced many and one may argue the world may need influence by them. The Traditionalist views the list as great how it is, and sees the merit in a writer becoming as good as the canonical writers already in it, as a way of not only meeting the expectations of the canon, but also exceeding it and adding itself to it.

The names in the Tradition are beyond big. The greatness attached to the writers is something that glows on a bookshelf, shivers a spine when read and can become an entire class at a University. Dante, Milton, Chaucer, Shakespeare, the influence they share can be argued as the backbone of Western Literature. Without these writers, we may not have Hawthorne, Mill, or Tolstoy on our shelves. Today, seeing a timeline of these books it is obvious that the world of literature would not have evolved as much as it did without the precursors of today. T.S. Eliot pointed out in “Tradition and the Individual Talent” that “…[W]e shall often find that not only the best, but the most individual parts of [the] work[s] may be those in which the dead poets, [their] ancestors, assert their immortality most vigorously.” Who we have become as writers directly influenced by whom we have read. The Canon is a to-do list in the Traditionalist view; to become a great writer, read the great writers. The writers, who have entered the canon, have done so because their work replicates work that has already entered the canon. A great writer would have the works of the past resonating in his craft, and Eliot would believe that this is the path to be elevated onto the plane of legendary that the canonical list commands.


The subject matter of the canon is widespread. The argument for the Traditionalist is that no matter a person’s religion, sex, origin, or status in life, there is something relatable in the material that all humans can connect. This connection has a “Humanist” perspective, that we are all connected, we all have similar experiences that resonate in our lives, and the author’s in the canon have been able to connect that to the mainstream of all society. The debate that the works in the canon are not applicable to the standards of “today” does not hold true for the Traditionalist, because no matter the author or time period, the work by itself can stand on its own, and still ring true today.


There is now a backlash to this thought. Labeled by Harold Bloom as “The School of Resentment”, the new lobbies in the Literature town are the people who want to modify the canon to be more reflective of minority culture. It is true, that when looking at a list of the works in the canon, it could hold the label as being full of “dead, wealthy, white men”. This is not far fetched, and can be hard to defend. The racial makeup of the canon is not reflective of the racial makeup of the supposed readers. This was never a problem when the only people allowed to attend Universities were white men. There would be no reason to question the tradition, had black men, and then later women, come into the education scene and begin to question why this canon looked the way it did, and to them, left them out in the cold.


When minorities and women started infiltrating corners of society, such as the University in the late 1960s, there came a recent time when scholars started to exam what picture of humanity we are seeing when we look at the canon. Adrienne Rich looked at the canon, and realized a binary of reading them, and being a woman at the same time (which before her time would have not been able to happen as freely). Rich says, on what she sees in reading the canonical authors view of women is that “She finds a terror and a dream, she finds a beautiful pale face, she finds La Belle Dame Sans Merci, she finds Juliet or Tess or Salome, but precisely what she does not find is that absorbed, drudging, puzzled, sometimes inspired creature, herself, who sits at a desk trying to put words together.” Looking at the canon through the eyes of a woman, and the picture of women is not a flattering image. Our duality is limited to slut or virgin, bitch or meek. We are ugly or pretty, one or the other. In it, the woman is not a character who is smart, validated, or standing on her own. Rich, staring into the center of Western Literature does not see herself, or any reflection of who she wants to be as a woman, she sees only what men think of what mass population she can be marginalized in.
This poses an issue to Eliot’s ideals of seeing the canon, and then entering into it. What is Rich learning, technical merit aside, from the author’s she is being told are representative of literacy’s past? She sees that she is not in it. This exclusion became a troublesome model of what to teach. As the students of the 1960s graduated, some becoming scholars, a movement appeared to examine the canon. If the Canon is so accurate of what we should be reading as participants in Western society, then should not the perspectives spread through to everyone that is in Western society? Should the literature reflect some thought to be important at the time, or should it change in importance as time goes by? Do we need to exclude authors for malaise of topic? It is no secret that the white, Anglo-Saxon men of the past 400 years have dominated not only literature, but economics, society, and culture. Here we are in the beginning of a new millennium, and the debate is getting stronger over how we decide what great work is, and who is to be elevated into the realm of the greats. Rich, and other’s like her, who have reviewed the canon, studied it, and come out of it seeing that it is almost like its counterpart word “cannon”. It is a barrel, it’s a single hole of what is good, and when each emerging artist enters this cannon, are their bullet bodies sitting heavy in it, lining up into it, or are they shot out and rejected?


I am supposed to pick a side. This is the part of the paper where I draw my conclusion, tell you in a fashionable way that I think one side is more right than the other is and that the other side is not going in the way they should. The truth is, is that I do not have a side. After studying both sides of the argument, I have only one conclusion, this imaginary list, the one no one can quite pin down concretely, or establish in stone, is a reference and nothing more. Can this list really be everything in the literary world? I see both sides equally. I do not wish for my children to not read Shakespeare because he’s a man, to cease reading Hemingway because he had an offensive view of women, or to only read Angelou because she’s a woman and black. I want to live in a world where the quantifier for entering the canon is not something on the surface, but because the work has such a strong, honest, and aesthetic presence, that I cannot help but promote the work to others. I want the canon to represent all that it is to be a human, from every perspective, from every source of the imagined talent of the writer. What I think is even more important, is that the canon reflect all truths, throughout time. The truth about slavery of humans, of abuse, of all the nasty dirty things man (in the human sense) has done to one another. Lolita by Nabokov should enter in it for the soul purpose that pedophilia is an appropriate subject matter for art. The approach I would like to see scholars take is to take this art of writing and expression of the human experience, and leave nothing on the sidelines. If I am going to read about rich white women by Austen, I also want to read about sex workers in a struggle in the same era. If we are going to study Crusoe conquering the new world and enslaving natives, I want to read about a proud Native American who stands for his own beliefs as well.


I do not bow down, to either left or right. The Traditionalists need to admit that there has been something missing from their great works, some of which has been passed over because a lack of influence within the culture which would have been beneficial. The “Resentful” left who want to be recognized as well needs to promote a diverse curriculum as well as give this process some time. I do not know if Homer was a superstar overnight. Before we start inputting the diverse, the left should ensure that it is not only because of diversity, but also because of the material itself. What good would it be to canonize texts with little literary worth because the author fits a marginalized section of humanity that does not have a representative amongst the great writers? For fear of proving the people who wish to keep the canon a list of white male writers, I plead with the scholars pushing for this reform to be sure of which texts they wish to prop. Since my children may have to read them in their High School English classes, let us make sure we pass down quality in the tradition, instead of mediocrity.

[motivez]

I wanted to post something about whether or not this was a serious question, since it could be argued that 'woman' and 'irrational' are synonyms.. but

I find it hard to read other peoples stuff with them right there as well, especially if they want to read it.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

It's about the debate on the Canon of Literature for Western Civilization.

Oh sweet mother of God.... You really, honestly thought he was going to make it through 8 pages of that????

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by 7960

Maybe you should write more interesting papers.

Maybe you should write more interesting papers.

Unapologetically, that was hilarious, 7960

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Oh sweet mother of God.... You really, honestly thought he was going to make it through 8 pages of that????

What? It's interesting! I think about that kinda stuff all the time! No, really I do.

He read it. He said it was the best paper ever. But it was sweet anyways.