When is this country going to get serious about energy? - Page 2

Ardentfrost · 08-14-2006, 06:39 PM

I read something just recently (I think I linked it here) saying that the best thing for solar panels is sunlight without too much heat. Apparently it makes them less efficient if they get too hot.

With that info, I'd think that pretty much most of America except places like Seattle would be pretty decent for solar panels.

Comrade Ramius · 08-15-2006, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I read something just recently (I think I linked it here) saying that the best thing for solar panels is sunlight without too much heat. Apparently it makes them less efficient if they get too hot.

With that info, I'd think that pretty much most of America except places like Seattle would be pretty decent for solar panels.

I've looked around on the internet at solar panels, and the kits for hot-water-heater panels and general panel kits are pretty expensive.

Ardentfrost · 08-15-2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Comrade Ramius

I've looked around on the internet at solar panels, and the kits for hot-water-heater panels and general panel kits are pretty expensive.

Yeah, that is certainly true

It's an investment though. Gotta do a cash flow analysis to figure out when you'll break even and shit.

Comrade Ramius · 08-15-2006, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Yeah, that is certainly true It's an investment though. Gotta do a cash flow analysis to figure out when you'll break even and shit.

True, it is an investment, and I'm willing, at some point when i have the finances to do so, to not break even on an alternative energy option if it reduces my ecological footprint significantly, or whatever the phrase is.

Ardentfrost · 08-15-2006, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Comrade Ramius

True, it is an investment, and I'm willing, at some point when i have the finances to do so, to not break even on an alternative energy option if it reduces my ecological footprint significantly, or whatever the phrase is.

Well, even if it will never make back the investment, you still have to do cash flow analyses and figure out if the total cost is worth the end result.

DosEquis · 08-15-2006, 06:51 PM

Biodiesel, ethanol, hydrogen, and hybrids are going to have to step it up.

I am sure we are very very far away from not using gasoline/diesel, but if we could even reduce the use by 5% or even just stay at our current level of use we would be in a lot better shape.

On a local level the cities should have all restaraunts and others who use cooking oil turn their oil into the city. Most business actually pays someone to pick it up. They could implement a tax credit program for the gallons of oil they give back to the city. Then they should use this oil to produce their own bio-diesel for public buses.

You can buy eqiupment on the web that will make 4800 gallons in 24 hours for about $35,000 with all the stuff. If the city is able to produce enough of its own bio-diesel fuel, sell off the extra to the public. Bio-diesel for the average guy (assuming oil is free) only costs $0.40 a gallon to make. It could be cheaper for the cities because they have better buying power than Dos Equis.

Right now regular diesel is going for $3.19ish. Sell the extra for $2.49, make a bunch of money, and use that to pay for the equipment and maintanence of it.

Ardentfrost · 08-15-2006, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Biodiesel, ethanol, hydrogen, and hybrids are going to have to step it up.

I am sure we are very very far away from not using gasoline/diesel, but if we could even reduce the use by 5% or even just stay at our current level of use we would be in a lot better shape.

On a local level the cities should have all restaraunts and others who use cooking oil turn their oil into the city. Most business actually pays someone to pick it up. They could implement a tax credit program for the gallons of oil they give back to the city. Then they should use this oil to produce their own bio-diesel for public buses.

You can buy eqiupment on the web that will make 4800 gallons in 24 hours for about $35,000 with all the stuff. If the city is able to produce enough of its own bio-diesel fuel, sell off the extra to the public. Bio-diesel for the average guy (assuming oil is free) only costs $0.40 a gallon to make. It could be cheaper for the cities because they have better buying power than Dos Equis.

Right now regular diesel is going for $3.19ish. Sell the extra for $2.49, make a bunch of money, and use that to pay for the equipment and maintanence of it.

I dunno.. have you read about biodiesel at all? Pretty much every city big enough to have the demand for biodiesel has a "Biodiesel Co-op" which is a group of people who have setup a pickup schedule, have bought the refinement hardware, etc... to fill the need. Most people don't have diesel engines, so those people are pretty much out of the loop.

The thing is, as renewable as cooking oil is, restaurants don't empty their tanks every day. From an average size establishment, you might get 10-20 gallons per week. That's probably good enough for one person. If every person who owns a biodiesel car has to have their own specific restaurant they hit up for oil once a week, that becomes a huge limiting factor.

Biodiesel, as it exists, has to remain a hobbiest-like setup. There simply isn't enough to go around for everyone. Of course, the coolest part is that you can freely mix biodiesel and regular diesel in your tank without any worries.

Anyhow, just look up your area and biodiesel users in your area probably have a forum. Here's a link to Atlanta's Biodiesel enthusiasts forums.

The Liberty Lounge Political Forums

There are already people who gather from restaurants and sell the stuff out of their backyards, and it's like that in most cities.

But I'm not convinced biodiesel is the answer, so to speak. As I pointed out, it's got a huge limiting factor because of restaurant oil usage. I like the ethanol thing pretty good, but it's still too expensive compared to gas. I'm sure that'll change eventually and we'll be using it a lot more. I did read somewhere that corn isn't the most efficient crop to get ethanol out of though... the article I read said sugar is a lot better. Sugar is one of our biggest crops, so I dunno why we don't do that. Probably because the corn industry is paying to push the support by the fed.

I don't want anything subsidized though. If gas becomes really hard to get, then it'll just become expensive and an alternative will become more economically viable.

6SpeedTA95 · 08-15-2006, 09:49 PM

A broad and diverse energy plan which include a variety of sources are the best solution. We need to use Nuclear, Coal and Natural gas for electricity generation and shut down the oil fired plants. Ehtanol production is on the rise, RAPIDLY on the rise. Last week I was doing some work on a NG pipeline that is providing natural gas to 6 new ethanol refineries in Iowa (among other places)

so its coming.

DosEquis · 08-15-2006, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

expensive and an alternative will become more economically viable.

I get what you are saying but with the cooperation of every restaraunt in the city I think you could get hundreds of gallons a day.

I know lawn service owners, and a variety of others that would buy it off you in a heart beat. It would help small business that has trucks immensely. I dont think the demand is there for it (at least here) because I dont think anyone knows a damn thing about it.

Just by my house alone, there is a KFC/LongJohnSilvers, Mcdonalds, Wendys, Arbys, Burger King, Sonic Drive through, Krogers (deli chicken etc,), Super Target, Carlos O Kelly (mexican restaraunt), Chilis, and an Old Chicago. ALL within like 1 square mile. Thats a lot of cooking oil.

Even if all the oil only meets a certain percentage of the total diesel requirement it helps. Especially if it were a nation wide effort.

6SpeedTA95 · 08-15-2006, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I get what you are saying but with the cooperation of every restaraunt in the city I think you could get hundreds of gallons a day.

I know lawn service owners, and a variety of others that would buy it off you in a heart beat. It would help small business that has trucks immensely. I dont think the demand is there for it (at least here) because I dont think anyone knows a damn thing about it.

Just by my house alone, there is a KFC/LongJohnSilvers, Mcdonalds, Wendys, Arbys, Burger King, Sonic Drive through, Krogers (deli chicken etc,), Super Target, Carlos O Kelly (mexican restaraunt), Chilis, and an Old Chicago. ALL within like 1 square mile. Thats a lot of cooking oil.

Even if all the oil only meets a certain percentage of the total diesel requirement it helps. Especially if it were a nation wide effort.

It could make a fairly significant difference for the city.

Ardentfrost · 08-15-2006, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I get what you are saying but with the cooperation of every restaraunt in the city I think you could get hundreds of gallons a day.

I know lawn service owners, and a variety of others that would buy it off you in a heart beat. It would help small business that has trucks immensely. I dont think the demand is there for it (at least here) because I dont think anyone knows a damn thing about it.

Just by my house alone, there is a KFC/LongJohnSilvers, Mcdonalds, Wendys, Arbys, Burger King, Sonic Drive through, Krogers (deli chicken etc,), Super Target, Carlos O Kelly (mexican restaraunt), Chilis, and an Old Chicago. ALL within like 1 square mile. Thats a lot of cooking oil.

Even if all the oil only meets a certain percentage of the total diesel requirement it helps. Especially if it were a nation wide effort.

Restaurant owners aren't going to want to empty their oil MORE often just because people need biofuel... that passes an unneeded cost to them which will raise their prices and cause them to charge more to the customers which gives non-participating restaurants an advantage.

The oil doesn't have to be used for it to be turned into biofuel... if people are going to PAY for the oil, they can just go to the store and get their own, but that's more expensive than gas

If you're not talking about restaurants emptying oil more often (which I hope you're not b/c that's about 2 IQ points short of retarded), then what it seems to me is needed to achieve your desire is more information on the subject. Making biofuel isn't exactly the easiest thing, but with enough information (making people want it more) would result in more people wanting to make it.

It's ignorance that is the current limiting factor in biofuel, but the number of people who want it is always going up, not down. As long as the number is going up, it's getting better

But then, if EVERYONE wanted it (which would most likely never happen), there wouldn't be enough to go around and the prices would skyrocket.

There's more going than just people wanting to use alternative fuel... there's also economic benefit. That will be what causes most people to decide one way or the other. Until ethanol/biofuel/other get cheaper and/or widespread, the most we can do is continue research and learning and all that stuff.

Personally, I think the desire is there, now people are just waiting on supply and economic benefit.

DosEquis · 08-16-2006, 12:00 AM

I would not expect them to alter their standard business practice when it comes to their oil.

But seriously Omaha NE has a SHIT ton of bars and restaurants. Thats about the only thing to do here. We have gallons upon gallons of cooking oil that just goes to no where. It would work I know it. It could reduce bus fares, it could do a lot of things.

Ardentfrost · 08-16-2006, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I would not expect them to alter their standard business practice when it comes to their oil.

But seriously Omaha NE has a SHIT ton of bars and restaurants. Thats about the only thing to do here. We have gallons upon gallons of cooking oil that just goes to no where. It would work I know it. It could reduce bus fares, it could do a lot of things.

start a co-op for Omaha then

You'd make a lot of money