When is this country going to get serious about energy?

[6SpeedTA95]

When is this country going to get serious about energy?

We want to be energy “independent”? Do we want to be reliant on foreign sources of oil? I think the answer to the first question is yes and the second question a resounding no. Why then are we not energy independent?

Well lets examine a few things:
1) Exploration and production of energy in this country faltered in the mid 80s and remained in a sustained downturn for the entire decade of the 1990s.
2) The energy demands of this country have outstripped domestic supply at a rather alarming pace since the late 1950s.
3) No one saw big problems with importing the readily available petroleum from the middle east until the first oil crisis of the late 70s.
4) This crisis didn’t bring about the necessary change.
5) American habbits remain largely unchanged since the 1970s.
6) We desperately need more exploration.


It’s easy to attribute the current energy crisis to misplaced policies of the previous administration. Admittedly the Clinton administration didn’t do enough with regards to energy policy and in fact their “status quo” policy throughout the world hurt us in way. While the impact of this policy initially was good as it kept energy prices low and was one reason the US economy thrived for nearly 8 years, it got the American consumer used to cheap energy, in fact cheap isn’t the right word, more like ULTRA cheap energy. The larger portion of the 1990s US energy prices were among the cheapest if not the cheapest in the industrialized world. In fact prices were on par with many third world countries.

Obviously times have changed. As Americans pay more for just about everything, the reasons? Higher energy costs. The most noticeable is higher gasoline prices, this affects everyone in a direct way and they feel the pinch. What seems to affect consumers but in a less direct way are energy prices in our homes, heating/cooling etc. Finally the affects we feel the least are in all the little things we buy at the store each week. Higher costs on almost everything have directly affect all of us. Higher costs that on the surface don’t seem too bad. That bag of Doritos was 3.09 four years ago, now its 3.49, while that’s not a huge increase almost all of the increase is directly related to energy costs. Shipping, production (aka cooking of the Doritos and growing the corn) and other energy related costs quickly add up.

We desperately need to increase our supply of energy to continue growing our economy. We also as a society need to make basic lifestyle changes that make huge impacts across the country in terms of energy consumption.

If every American household switched four 100 watt bulbs with 26 watt fluorescents it would be like removing 30 million cars from American roads in terms of energy consumption and CO2 production. My recommendation is replace all your bulbs with 13 watt bulbs. Maybe use 26 watt bulbs in the bathroom but I have found 13 watt bulbs from quality brands to be as bright or brighter than the 100 watt incandescent bulbs. The fact is we as Americans are wasteful in our daily lives and businesses while among the most efficient in the world could probably be even more efficient with their energy consumption. Employees are notorious for wasting energy, leaving PC’s on all weekend, tv’s, cable boxes, radios, etc are left on in the work place constantly. Even if no one is around. The same can be said for energy use in your home. We must change as a society, we must demand more efficient cars from auto manufacturers, we must be more efficient in our daily lives.

On the supply side, the US has abundant energy resources. US reserves of natural gas are estimated at near 1500 TRILLION cubic feet. With an annual usage of approximately 23 trillion cubic feet we are in no way running out of natural gas. North American reserves are more than 2000 trillion cubic feet and history seems to suggest that those numbers could easily double, and possibly go up 10 fold as technology betters our extraction and production of energy resources. The US also has a fair amount of known oil supplies, the problem is there have not been many new US discoveries in oil. Why is this? Governmental constraints on exploration and production are the chief reasons. The continental shelf has an estimated 40 to 190 billion barrels of readily extractable oil. The Gulf of Mexico has estimates ranging from as low as 31 billion barrels to as many as 240 billion barrels. The coast of Flordia? Try another 35 to 48 billion barrels. This doesn’t even touch on the Alaskan reserves, a state which to this day remains largely unexplored. The fact is we don’t know how much oil we’re sitting on, furthermore, when there’s oil there’s almost always without fail, natural gas. Then there’s the US Coal supply. Coal seems to be a dirty word among many despite technological break throughs that make coal a readily available, clean source of energy.

The facts are that the US could be energy independent, but it will take a concerted effort by both political parties. The republicans need to quit subsidizing energy prices and let the market do its job, the democrats need to quit constraining exploration.

By using a combination of Nuclear Energy, Solar Power, Wind Power and Natural Gas we could completely eliminate the use of oil as an electricity provider. This would lessen the demand for oil having a mild impact on Gasoline prices and prices of petroleum based products. The EPA should enforce CAFÉ standards that force automobile producers to become more efficient over time. The lack of changes the last 25 years have caused gas mileage averages to basically stall. We have the technology to build reasonably powerful cars while making them significantly more efficient. The EPA needs standards that go up every 5 years. A moving standard would help force the auto industry to keep up with the times.

Further supplementing oil supplies with ethanol would result in further demand decreases in oil in the USA. Between new technologies, lower demand and supplemental supplies the US could be oil independent by 2020 easily. However, that will take work and it will take the environmentalist loosening their grip on Washington and state democrats to come up with new supplies in our clean sources of energy along with building quality renewals like wind, solar power and nuclear power.

Through a combination of consumer lifestyle adjustment (and not big adjustments at that) and governmental policy adjustment we could easily be energy independent and lessen our pollution but it doesn’t seem like anyone wants to take the necessary steps to do this.

[Concept]

Very good post, 6speed.

The automobile market is already beginning to shift itself to accomodate the demand for more efficient vehicles. Toyota (Lexus, respectively), Honda (Acura, respectively), Dodge, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and other automobile manufacturers have already began the moving towards to the creation of more fuel efficient vehicles. I believe that the competition amongst these vehicle companies will lead to the creation of the most efficient automobile; I'm convinced that people would not mind buying current hybrids that look good and offer the power of a normal vehicle; we will be seeing a wave of hybrids invading the automobile industry within the next two years.

You were right on the money with the wasteful habits of people. I myself am guilty of leaving the computer on at work all weekend and whatnot .

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Concept

Very good post, 6speed.

The automobile market is already beginning to shift itself to accomodate the demand for more efficient vehicles. Toyota (Lexus, respectively), Honda (Acura, respectively), Dodge, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and other automobile manufacturers have already began the moving towards to the creation of more fuel efficient vehicles. I believe that the competition amongst these vehicle companies will lead to the creation of the most efficient automobile; I'm convinced that people would not mind buying current hybrids that look good and offer the power of a normal vehicle; we will be seeing a wave of hybrids invading the automobile industry within the next two years.

You were right on the money with the wasteful habits of people. I myself am guilty of leaving the computer on at work all weekend and whatnot .

The big problem with current hybrids in many cases is that they're great if you drive accordingly but americans dont. There's been numerous studies on people with hybrids (excluding the civic and prius) and the conclusions have been that the average US driver will see only a 7 to 10% increase in fuel economy on the highway and 4 to 6% in the city. Why? The way we drive, the EPA mileage standards are dated and with todays vehicles we need a new standard that more accurately reflects what consumers can expect.

edit: btw yes the market will turn towards more hybrids as gas prices increase and stay above 2/gallon (which will probably be forever). However, its fair to say the government has dropped the ball on the EPA standards over the last 16 to 18 years. The most significant changes came last year with the CAFE standard changes but thats not nearly enough. Things will change over the coming years, but the real point of my post is its less about the cars we drive and their mileage and more about a complete solution if we ever expect to be independent.

[Concept]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

The way we drive

Hm?

I know how I drive and how all the f'ing dicks in Miami drive (and we were rated THE road rage capital of the world), but how do Americans tend to drive that downplays hybrids?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Concept

Hm?

I know how I drive and how all the f'ing dicks in Miami drive (and we were rated THE road rage capital of the world), but how do Americans tend to drive that downplays hybrids?

Very rapid acceleration and driving faster than 60mph on the highway.

A lot of hybrids can run totally on battery power at speeds below 40mph and when accelerating can accelerate totally on battery power when accelerating at a rate of less than 2.6 mph/second at speeds above 10mph. The problem? Thats a fairly slow clip...at 60mph a lot of cars can run 90% of battery power and only 10% on gas power but as speed increases from 60 to 70mph those numbers plummet and go down exponentially as speed increases.

EPA ratings are done under specific conditions, for example:
Max highway rating speed 59.9 mph
Max acceleration on the city cycle is 3.3mph/sec

This is an incredibly old standard and we need two highway ratings one for 65mph and one for 80mph to show consumers the difference. We need acceleration numbers that more accurately reflect real world acceleration with variable speed increases, not a set 3.3mph/sec.

[Comrade Ramius]

The more we try to move away from oil and the Saudi teat, the more Bandar "Bush," the Saudi family, and Big Oil will throw their political and financial weight around in Washington to prevent things from happening.

Of course we don't get the majority of our oil from them, but a huge movement to alternate energy sources in the US would be a harbinger of similar movements elsewhere in the world.

Not trying to be a tin-foil-hatter, but if the country does get serious about different energy sources, it's going to be from state and local governments and grassroots movements, not Washington.


I read Sleeping With The Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soil For Saudi Crude by Bob Baer, and it's a pretty grim but realistic look at how stuck we are with oil and Saudi Arabia by our sides, as far as Washington is concerned. Good book too.

[motivez]

What do you think about things like recycling, etc? I remember someone saying it was a 'waste of time'.. but

I agree with the light thing, it's easy to make simply lifestyle choices that help put another drop in the bucket of conservation.. Next time I need to buy lightbulbs I'm going to be purchasing more energy effecient and longer lasting ones, I just haven't had a need to.

I've also started recycling paper and cans, thinking about plastic too, but I think there's a lot of restrictions on what type of plastic can be recycled.

As far as cars, it's harder when you're like me has to settle for anything that drives, but making the best of it (like going with a civic or carolla) by going with something that has the best mileage available is something I'm doing

I'm torn on the "exploration" thing. I think we need to end our reliance on foreign oil, though I think most of it comes from Canada, and not the Saudi's?

But, I don't want to completely fuck nature by going balls out and drilling everywhere and ruining the enviornment.. especially when it wouldn't be commercially available to the US for 5 years or so in most cases.

I'd much prefer we put our resources and time into developing cleaner burning alternatives, a real worthwhile national public transit system (high speed rail), etc.. so people don't have to drive cross country..

I think in the long run you don't beat an addiction by finding more product to be addicted to, you find other ways to get what you need. Great post though

[Ardentfrost]

If you want to save energy, do not recycle anything except aluminum cans (from your home).

If you're recycling because it makes you feel good, then do whatever you want

[motivez]

Why's that?

What's wrong with recycling paper and plastics?

[Ardentfrost]

It takes more energy to recycle them than to put them in a landfill. After more trucks come through to pick up the stuff for recycling, purifying, processing, etc... occurs, it costs more energy than it does to make brand new junk.

If that weren't the case, then you could get money for turning in paper or plastic to recycling centers Plus, the recycling industry wouldn't be subsidized $8 billion a year

[motivez]

Well I knew that was the case with plastic, which is why it's not recycled fully.. but never heard that about paper.

You have any links about that?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by motivez

Well I knew that was the case with plastic, which is why it's not recycled fully.. but never heard that about paper.

You have any links about that?

I could find some, give me some time. Week before school starts makes ardent busy at work

[Ardentfrost]

This dude Daniel Benjamin has done some good research on the costs of recycling (you know... besides the $8 billion)

Here's something he wrote in response to Seattle making curbside recycling mandatory a couple years back.

The Heartland Institute - Mandatory Recycling Wastes Resources, Harms Environment - by Daniel K. Benjamin

He's not talking specifically about paper in this case, but I'm still looking around. He does touch on how there are costs to recycling and those costs are oftentimes (not always) more than regular disposal.

Personally, I favor aluminum and glass recycling, but that's me It does make a person feel good though... thinking that they're helping.

[Ardentfrost]

Man, this looks pretty good. At one point it outlines the costs of recycling and all that good stuff

http://www.perc.org/pdf/ps28.pdf

36 pages, but not too bad.

[WickedLou9]

Yeah I think we do need to do alot more in terms of generating electricity. I mean the technology is there. The sun provides all of the energy we could ever need. The sun evaporates water and the water falls and forms rivers, etc. The sun causes temperature differences and makes wind..

If we build more hydro electric plants, which are 100% clean renewable energry with zero pollution? Wind power, solar power.. I mean jeez.

What town doesn't have atleast one river that they could generate electricity from? EVen if it's only enough to power the street lights and public buildings. This stuff would pay for itself if you give it enough time. I don't know why we don't do it.

BTW.. I am a bit sceptical about that 30 million cars figure.. how did you, or whoever, come up with that number?

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Yeah I think we do need to do alot more in terms of generating electricity. I mean the technology is there. The sun provides all of the energy we could ever need. The sun evaporates water and the water falls and forms rivers, etc. The sun causes temperature differences and makes wind..

If we build more hydro electric plants, which are 100% clean renewable energry with zero pollution? Wind power, solar power.. I mean jeez.

Couple problems. One is they dont provide much power for the costs. Two is enviromentalists are seriously against hydro-electric plants and have even come out against wind power.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Couple problems. One is they dont provide much power for the costs. Two is enviromentalists are seriously against hydro-electric plants and have even come out against wind power.

Those people are crazy.

So what if we damn up a river? we are not destroying nature. we are changing one ecosystem to another on a micro-level. If the result is that we can shut down one coal burning plant than the environment is better off.

The people that don't like wind power are mainly just pissed because wind turbines are large and unsightly. They don't care about clean engery. they Just don't want thier views to be obstructed.

[Ardentfrost]

Yeah, solar power, as great as it is, takes a long time to get money back on the investment. I really hope to add some solar panels to my future house because I think it's a great long-term investment (or, I do from the very few articles I've read on it), I just don't see most people doing that anytime soon.

[Ardentfrost]

There are good and bad things about all methods of energy generation... I would like to see all forms of energy generation unsubsidized so that we can really figure out which method is cheaper and which method citizens favor.