Power of Prayer: proven to be non-existant

[Thorgrim]

One of the only things people I know who are religious always annoyingly point out is that people who are prayed for get better than those who are not

this is false, they do the same if not worse:

NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

...

The patients, meanwhile, were split into three groups of about 600 apiece: those who knew they were being prayed for, those who were prayed for but only knew it was a possibility, and those who weren't prayed for but were told it was a possibility.

Power of prayer flunks an unusual test - Heart Health - MSNBC.com



Finally, one myth down

[Dumpy Dooby]

The Templeton Foundation's studies indicate otherwise.


Just throwing that out there to see what angle you take to dismiss the TF's studies, while accepting the one you found.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

The Templeton Foundation's studies indicate otherwise.


Just throwing that out there to see what angle you take to dismiss the TF's studies, while accepting the one you found.

What studies are these?

[imind]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

The Templeton Foundation's studies indicate otherwise.


Just throwing that out there to see what angle you take to dismiss the TF's studies, while accepting the one you found.

this study was supported by the templeton foundation.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Oh, I got the two mixed up. I remember reading a discussion, and the two major studies were brought up. From what I recall, they were both sponsored by credible sources. I can't remember what the other organization was, though. I just remember Templeton Foundation.

Oh well. Not that important to me. I don't think Thorgrim was all that interested anyway.

[Roonie]

Has anyone heard of the 100th Monkey Syndrome or phenomenon. I think prayer works in the same way. This is a cool experiment and it translates to many things in life I have found. For those of you not aware of the experiment;

"When a certain critical number achieves an awareness, this new awareness may be communicated from mind to mind.

Although the exact number may vary, this Hundredth Monkey Phenomenon means that when only a limited number of people know of a new way, it may remain the conscious property of these people.

But there is a point at which if only one more person tunes in to a new awareness, a field is strengthened so that this awareness is picked up by almost everyone!"

A quick explanantion of the experiment..
Free Book! The Hundredth Monkey by Ken Keyes Jr.

[Simius]

I'd call BS on the 100th monkey thingy. Hell, a billion people know how to use the Internet... but my grandma still hasn't picked up on this new awareness.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Simius

I'd call BS on the 100th monkey thingy. Hell, a billion people know how to use the Internet... but my grandma still hasn't picked up on this new awareness.

and BS it is ... the hundredth monkey phenomenom

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by Kytro

and BS it is ... the hundredth monkey phenomenom

You took the wind right out of my sails with this. I have heard of this phenomenon back in the late 80's but never thought of validating it. It looks like the monkeys did learn to wash the potato's as they normally would and they passed it along naturally to their infants who in turn passed it along. There was no sudden group awareness stretching across borders. I guess sometimes you want things to happen that can't be explained by any logical means of explanation. I guess there is always miracles.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Roonie

You took the wind right out of my sails with this. I have heard of this phenomenon back in the late 80's but never thought of validating it. It looks like the monkeys did learn to wash the potato's as they normally would and they passed it along naturally to their infants who in turn passed it along. There was no sudden group awareness stretching across borders. I guess sometimes you want things to happen that can't be explained by any logical means of explanation. I guess there is always miracles.

Everyone is subject to congitive biases about ideas they support. I guess I hear so many claims these days that I am skepitcal about them.

It is a nice idea, but I would have suspected significanlty more obvious evidence to show it happening.

There is a great deal which we do not understand, and it is only by study that we have a chance of coming to an understanding. There is however more to life than simply knowing.

[Photon1001]

As it was explained by a priest I once knew, any test of prayer is almost always going to be doomed to fail, as such a test would be a break in the chain of faith, so to speak.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by Photon1001

As it was explained by a priest I once knew, any test of prayer is almost always going to be doomed to fail, as such a test would be a break in the chain of faith, so to speak.

In other words, it is complete bull. This is the same type of argument that the creationists have for evolution. If evidence fails you, claim that God wanted it to be seen that way in order for people to have to have "faith".

[Photon1001]

Originally Posted by Schrödinger's Cat

In other words, it is complete bull. This is the same type of argument that the creationists have for evolution. If evidence fails you, claim that God wanted it to be seen that way in order for people to have to have "faith".

I have to ask though, have you heard of the theory of the menton? The theoretical subatomic particle that exists inside atoms inside our brains that can travel outside of 3/4D space and/or has quantum non-locality with other particles in 3/4D space and...

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Photon1001

As it was explained by a priest I once knew, any test of prayer is almost always going to be doomed to fail, as such a test would be a break in the chain of faith, so to speak.

Isn't it nice and convenient how some all-powerful being would want people to believe without evidence and to never question the belief.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by Photon1001

I have to ask though, have you heard of the theory of the menton? The theoretical subatomic particle that exists inside atoms inside our brains that can travel outside of 3/4D space and/or has quantum non-locality with other particles in 3/4D space and...

And Jesus rode a dino to the temple.

[Photon1001]

Check out this actual blog entry:

My Answered Prayer
My Answered Prayer explained
Well some of you may be wondering why my blog is called "My Answered Prayer". It probably should be Answered Prayers b/c God is always answering my prayers but it's singular b/c I've been praying for a while that God would lead me home to be a stay at home mom. Well this spring it happened. We got a letter in the mail from our Agent that takes care of different investment and insurance needs saying that they handle health insurance also. Well E told me to call and that set things in motion.

April 15th was a great day for our family....1st of all it was the end of tax season...woohoo!!! Secondly I got the phone call from the agent....actually I called his secretary. She was so sweet. She said she had never known someone so anxious to quit work but then I explained that I could be at home with my kids. She understood then. She found out that day we were approved and the premiums were remarkable. So on April 15th I gave my notice at work. It was bitter sweet. I have such a wonderful group of friends at work. People I would have never gotten to know if it wasn't for work. Some of my best friends. And rekindled friendships. 8 yrs at the same place will do that. Yes Glo...I'm getting teary eyed.

Last Friday was my last day at work and yes I cried most of the day and avoided some people b/c I knew I would cry the other half of the day even though I knew I'd see them the next day.

Well that explains the name of the blog and I'm sure I'll be sharing more answered prayers!!!!

God is o good!

[HughRuss]

Originally Posted by Photon1001

Check out this actual blog entry:

God chose to forgo these young children's prayers:


In order to satisfy a woman enough financially to stay at home with her children?

What a dick.

Maybe Africa is God's blindspot. Or maybe they are praying to His bad ear.

[Photon1001]

Some funny related stuff:

YouTube - does prayer work?

YouTube - MythBusters: Does God exist?

[redwards]

Holy bump.

And @ Dumpy for not RTFA.

[Photon1001]

There is however the fact that, despite all the studies that show it to be completely ineffectual, sometimes, its all you got.