2nd Republican Debate Starting now - OFFICIAL COMMENT THREAD - Page 2

motivez · 05-15-2007, 10:47 PM

I just got done watching..was pretty interesting, was really surprised with how aggressively they kind of went after Paul.. I thought he did well, even in that extended exchange.. but wow, that Republican audience wasn't digging what he had to say, but that's no surprise.

It's always laughable to me to watch people say Iraq will become a haven for Al Qaeda.. shows tremendous ignorance to suggest that Al Qaeda will be given free reign in Iraq if we weren't there, the same level of ignorance that was present when we went into Iraq with no concept of the complexities of ethnic / religious relations in that country.

Donkey® · 05-15-2007, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I just got done watching..was pretty interesting, was really surprised with how aggressively they kind of went after Paul.. I thought he did well, even in that extended exchange.. but wow, that Republican audience wasn't digging what he had to say, but that's no surprise.

It's always laughable to me to watch people say Iraq will become a haven for Al Qaeda.. shows tremendous ignorance to suggest that Al Qaeda will be given free reign in Iraq if we weren't there, the same level of ignorance that was present when we went into Iraq with no concept of the complexities of ethnic / religious relations in that country.

Like I said...he was spot on with the whole statement that got him in trouble. It's still a mystery to me as to why he insists on running with that R next to his name.

thomez · 05-15-2007, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I just got done watching..was pretty interesting, was really surprised with how aggressively they kind of went after Paul.. I thought he did well, even in that extended exchange.. but wow, that Republican audience wasn't digging what he had to say, but that's no surprise.

The "establishment" wants nothing to do with a Ron Paul in office and he is an actual conservative so the modern Republicans want nothing more than to get him out of the way before he makes them all look like they in fact have abandoned their heritage.

Scrum · 05-15-2007, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

The "establishment" wants nothing to do with a Ron Paul in office and he is an actual conservative so the modern Republicans want nothing more than to get him out of the way before he makes them all look like they in fact have abandoned their heritage.

It's situations like this that really point out major flaws in our system of government.

thomez · 05-15-2007, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

It's situations like this that really point out major flaws in our system of government.

I can't really agree with that, in my opinion our Constitution setup the best system of government that has ever existed... that doesn't mean that we conduct it properly however

Donkey® · 05-15-2007, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

I can't really agree with that, in my opinion our Constitution setup the best system of government that has ever existed... that doesn't mean that we conduct it properly however

It took a revolution to bring about the Constitution in the first place...it will take another one to take us back. This sytem is fucked at the moment.

Scrum · 05-15-2007, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

I can't really agree with that, in my opinion our Constitution setup the best system of government that has ever existed... that doesn't mean that we conduct it properly however

I would call where we are at now in 2007 pretty much a failure as far as what the electoral system has degraded to.

I don't care if it's the system, the people involved or a combination of the two.

The two major parties manage to keep a stranglehold on everything and we are the ones who suffer as much as we are to blame.

lew · 05-15-2007, 11:53 PM

Paul is winning the polls on Fox and MSNBC right now

lew · 05-15-2007, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Paul got absolutely demolished. Sorry boys. Thompson and Tancredo can't speak properly. The rest are basically all the same.

I don't think so. I think he held his own pretty well against Giuliani.

Giuliani made his mistake by taking a shot at Paul - now Paul is going to get all this press coverage.

lew · 05-15-2007, 11:59 PM

Paul said on Hannity & Colmes that he would welcome a debate with Giuliani on foreign policy any time

Donkey® · 05-16-2007, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by lew

I don't think so. I think he held his own pretty well against Giuliani.

Giuliani made his mistake by taking a shot at Paul - now Paul is going to get all this press coverage.

What this debate made crystal clear is exactly what I said before...he has NO party to back him up. Even the party he's trying to run under is trying to destroy him. If he, by some miracle of death and luck, won the Republican nomination and became president...he would have ZERO support in Congress for his policies. ZERO. He would veto shit and get overridden. He would propose this and that and the proposals would fail in congress.

motivez · 05-16-2007, 12:24 AM

I don't see any polls to vote on on Fox News

Thorgrim · 05-16-2007, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

The "establishment" wants nothing to do with a Ron Paul in office and he is an actual conservative so the modern Republicans want nothing more than to get him out of the way before he makes them all look like they in fact have abandoned their heritage.

This is why you don't do debates on Fox News, look at how vicious they were to RP, and overall, everyone came out of the debate looking worse

McCain looked bad on "kennedy-mccain"
Rudy looked bad on abortion
Romney looked bad on "changes his opinion on even number years"

Huckabee/Brownback/T-Thompson/Tancredo/Gilmore/Hunter all sounded like the same 2nd tier candidate with nothing real to catch anyones eye, and wasted another chance to get attention while they are being invited to debates

Ron Paul...jees, I can't believe some of you think he won any sort of points with anyone except libertarians

Was he 99% or 100% right on terrorism? Yes, absolutely, but remember all those GOP voters who ran into the booths in 2002 thinking saddam ordered 9/11...its not about who is right and wrong its how you do the message

The biggest applause was Rudy acting like he was disgusted to be on the same stage as Paul, the audience agreed, the GOP viewed him as a failure as a human being, you don't win voters that way

I said before he doesn't have a shot in hell and tonight he nailed himself in the coffin, by giving an intellectually honest answer that is simply over the heads of many GOP voters

and the things the GOP did like...massive lower government for the "welfare state" are things that would never play with democrats...put together indepedents will get turned off by one of those

Donkey® · 05-16-2007, 03:11 AM

Fox Poll results.

You Decide GOP Primary Poll Results

— 29% Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

— 25% Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas

— 19% Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani

— 8% Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee

— 5% Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif. Hunter

— 4% Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

— 3% Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo.

— 1% Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan.

— 0% Former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore

— 0% Former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson

ballz2wallz · 05-16-2007, 06:32 AM

We need Fred! and Newt in there, some real conservatives.

thomez · 05-16-2007, 06:51 AM

John McCain - 4%

Stylerod · 05-16-2007, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

John McCain - 4%

I know. And everyone keeps calling him a "Frontrunner". I don't get it.

Stylerod · 05-16-2007, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Ron Paul...jees, I can't believe some of you think he won any sort of points with anyone except libertarians

Only part worth discussing. I missed a lot of it and have to watch it again. I felt Paul wasn't great. But:

You Decide GOP Primary Poll Results

— 29% Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

— 25% Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas

— 19% Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani

This poll seems to not agree with your statement quoted above.

Donkey® · 05-16-2007, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Only part worth discussing. I missed a lot of it and have to watch it again. I felt Paul wasn't great. But:

You Decide GOP Primary Poll Results

— 29% Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

— 25% Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas

— 19% Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani

This poll seems to not agree with your statement quoted above.

I don't think you can take that for face value. We don't know WHO voted. This was a random "anyone can vote" poll done by text messaging. We don't know if it was Republican/Democrat/other voting for Paul.

thatguyoverthere · 05-16-2007, 08:54 AM

I don't understand the hate some people seem to have here for Ron Paul. I think his running is an excellent sign for the health of our country. It would also be a great thing for America if the Republican party got out from under the religious right and went back to some of their traditional values. And it gives libertarians the opportunity to show their numbers and true influence. And quite honestly, compared to creeps like Cheney and softheads like Bush, candidate Ron Paul is a huge step up in terms of quality IMO.

Those poll numbers after the debate are a little significant, I would argue. Where was Bill Clinton polling in the middle of May 1991? Where was Kerry polling in May 2003? Fourth at best and single digits if I remember (for Kerry.) It's not at all out of the realm of possibility that Paul could catch fire in the next six months.

Romney is the clear front runner right now, and while that's a good position to be in, it's so long until the primaries that it has plenty of time to change. When you're the front runner that early, everyone else is gunning for you. The only big coffin nails going in are for McCain, (4%?!) who I think is already toast.