2nd Republican Debate Starting now - OFFICIAL COMMENT THREAD

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

I don't understand the hate some people seem to have here for Ron Paul. I think his running is an excellent sign for the health of our country. It would also be a great thing for America if the Republican party got out from under the religious right and went back to some of their traditional values. And it gives libertarians the opportunity to show their numbers and true influence. And quite honestly, compared to creeps like Cheney and softheads like Bush, candidate Ron Paul is a huge step up in terms of quality IMO.

Those poll numbers after the debate are a little significant, I would argue. Where was Bill Clinton polling in the middle of May 1991? Where was Kerry polling in May 2003? Fourth at best and single digits if I remember (for Kerry.) It's not at all out of the realm of possibility that Paul could catch fire in the next six months.

Romney is the clear front runner right now, and while that's a good position to be in, it's so long until the primaries that it has plenty of time to change. When you're the front runner that early, everyone else is gunning for you. The only big coffin nails going in are for McCain, (4%?!) who I think is already toast.

Ron Paul is a good candidate...in another time and place. There's not much wrong with his way of thinking or politics. The problem is two-fold. First, he'll never EVER win. Second, if he did win, he would have absolutely NO party to back him up in Congress. Obviously, the Republicans hate him and the Democrats think he's a joke. Who will pass his legislation? Who will allow him to veto anything? The system in this country is broken and until it gets fixed, you're not going to have an Independent win. Period. We're stuck between these two parties...and it is a shame because I think more people like Paul should run. Start by getting the money out of running for office and elections and politics. Then, disband all political parties...have everyone run based on their beliefs. Only then will an Independent have a chance (because they all would be Independent.)

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I don't think you can take that for face value. We don't know WHO voted. This was a random "anyone can vote" poll done by text messaging. We don't know if it was Republican/Democrat/other voting for Paul.

Oh, I agree it's not scientific at all. But from what I hear only brainwashed Bushites watch Fox News and if they are voting in this numbers for Paul it does show there is interest in him.

But we also saw this from Dean 3 years ago. Remember all that "Grassroots internet" garbage that was spewed and how Dean was going to cream everyone? Well, where is he now? Nowhere to be seen....

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Oh, I agree it's not scientific at all. But from what I hear only brainwashed Bushites watch Fox News and if they are voting in this numbers for Paul it does show there is interest in him.

But we also saw this from Dean 3 years ago. Remember all that "Grassroots internet" garbage that was spewed and how Dean was going to cream everyone? Well, where is he now? Nowhere to be seen....

Wooo haw. That one gaffe did him in.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Wooo haw. That one gaffe did him in.

Blame the Democrats. If he was THAT popular and great for our nation it should have meant nothing.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Ron Paul is a good candidate...in another time and place. There's not much wrong with his way of thinking or politics. The problem is two-fold. First, he'll never EVER win. Second, if he did win, he would have absolutely NO party to back him up in Congress. Obviously, the Republicans hate him and the Democrats think he's a joke. Who will pass his legislation? Who will allow him to veto anything? The system in this country is broken and until it gets fixed, you're not going to have an Independent win. Period. We're stuck between these two parties...and it is a shame because I think more people like Paul should run. Start by getting the money out of running for office and elections and politics. Then, disband all political parties...have everyone run based on their beliefs. Only then will an Independent have a chance (because they all would be Independent.)

I agree the system is broken, and the far right religious conservatives do hate him, but I think he has a shot at attracting other disillusioned Republicans sick of the radical religious right wing ruining their party. There might be a significant number of them. I also think he has some attraction for independents as well as the obvious libertarian appeal.

And I'm a Democrat, but I don't think Paul is a joke. I don't want to vote for someone who voted for the Iraq war, and if it's Ron Paul vs. Hillary in 2008 and Hillary doesn't make a convincing public mea culpa (which she will,) I'll have to think very carefully about my vote. I'm glad he's gaining support of traditional conservatives. Again, whether he has a real chance at landing the nomination I don't know, but coming in second on this debate poll is significant because there is still so much time for a new candidate to make an impression.

The media loves a new face it can build up (and knock down,) so again, I think he has a chance to catch fire, especially if the other candidates continue to attack him (thereby drawing attention to him.) What the Republican primary voters will think about Paul is a totally different story, but if he can somehow get the aura of a winner and the momentum, I think those voters will fall in line. They want someone new. Romney and Paul fit that bill, Giuliani and McCain don't.

In short, the simple fact that Romney is the front runner now makes him a little more vulnerable because there is still so much time to go before the primaries. If Romney does something stupid (like cheer at his own campaign rally ) and Rudy keeps irritating the base, it seems to me that Paul is poised to take advantage of that situation, a situation I think is entirely possible (if, admittedly, not entirely probable.)

[JaJae]

This debate was much better than the debate on MSNBC. The candidates were asked good questions and gave solid answers. There's no contest here as to who gave the better debate.

Overall I think Romney put out his usually strong performance. Rudy stumbled but came out strong. I think Paul may have hurt himself in the long run.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

But we also saw this from Dean 3 years ago. Remember all that "Grassroots internet" garbage that was spewed and how Dean was going to cream everyone? Well, where is he now? Nowhere to be seen....

Uh, Dean became chairman of the DNC, and his efforts in building the Democratic party helped the Democrats compete and win in 2006. That's not exactly nowhere...

[JaJae]

It was a very controversial placement and while he did fund a lot of money he also continued to consistently embarrass the Democrats and had to be hidden from the media for upwards of months on end.

And I personally don't give Dean all the credit for the money funded. We're at war and there's an unpopular party in power. If he didn't bring home the bank he'd be a complete disgrace.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Wooo haw. That one gaffe did him in.

Uh,... no.

The "Dean Scream" happened when he came in THIRD in the primary. It was already over for Dean at that point, unfortunately. The fuss over the "scream" was just self-inflicted insult to injury. The Democratic primary voters wanted the safe choice of Kerry, and they got exactly what they deserved by making Kerry the nominee in 2004: A loss.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by JaJae

It was a very controversial placement and while he did fund a lot of money he also continued to consistently embarrass the Democrats and had to be hidden from the media for upwards of months on end.

And I personally don't give Dean all the credit for the money funded. We're at war and there's an unpopular party in power. If he didn't bring home the bank he'd be a complete disgrace.

You underestimate the ability of the Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot! The fact that they didn't wasn't just dumb luck!

Sure, Dean doesn't deserve ALL the credit, but he does deserve SOME. The Democrats didn't even bother to try and compete in all 50 states and in all races until Dean came along.

And he didn't consistently embarass the Democrats. Only the scream was embarassing. I wasn't embarassed by anything else he did at all. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised by the results of the 2006 elections. I honestly didn't think the Dems could do it. We're so good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory it's ridiculous!

And I didn't notice them hiding him, I remember seeing Dean on the sunday talk shows and on CNN and FOX all the way up to the election. I don't know where you got that "hiding him" nonsense.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

I don't understand the hate some people seem to have here for Ron Paul. I think his running is an excellent sign for the health of our country. It would also be a great thing for America if the Republican party got out from under the religious right and went back to some of their traditional values. And it gives libertarians the opportunity to show their numbers and true influence. And quite honestly, compared to creeps like Cheney and softheads like Bush, candidate Ron Paul is a huge step up in terms of quality IMO.

Dead on.

I don't know why more people don't look at it that way.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Dead on.

I don't know why more people don't look at it that way.

What are you talking about?

Fox Poll results.

You Decide GOP Primary Poll Results

— 29% Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

— 25% Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas

— 19% Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani

— 8% Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee

— 5% Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif. Hunter

— 4% Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

— 3% Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo.

— 1% Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan.

— 0% Former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore

— 0% Former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson


This poll shows him coming in 2nd after the primary debate. I think plenty of people are looking "at it that way".






PS. Someone quote me. I think Scrum has me on ignore

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

What are you talking about?

Fox Poll results.

You Decide GOP Primary Poll Results

— 29% Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

— 25% Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas

— 19% Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani

— 8% Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee

— 5% Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif. Hunter

— 4% Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

— 3% Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo.

— 1% Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan.

— 0% Former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore

— 0% Former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson


This poll shows him coming in 2nd after the primary debate. I think plenty of people are looking "at it that way".






PS. Someone quote me. I think Scrum has me on ignore

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Publius

I don't put too much into polls, but I can only hope it's accurate.

And my comment was pointed more at people who align themselves to the left.

[motivez]

I hate to break it to some of you guys, but various liberal websites like Daily Kos and so forth are encouraging their readers to vote for Paul in these polls and even donate to his campaign because they feel like if it weren't for him being in the debates, there would be no voice they'd agree with and it's forcing the other candidates to respond to the failures of the war instead of shifting blame to the Democrats.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by JaJae

This debate was much better than the debate on MSNBC. The candidates were asked good questions and gave solid answers. There's no contest here as to who gave the better debate.

Overall I think Romney put out his usually strong performance. Rudy stumbled but came out strong. I think Paul may have hurt himself in the long run.

If Ron can't get the nomination he should be made the next Budget Director!

But I think Rudy did get the best of him on his 9/11 explanations! Here is the YOUTUBE on that exchange:


YouTube - Republican Debate 5-15-07 - Ron Paul vs. Rudy Giuliani

[JaJae]

He said we've been bombing Iraq for 10 years before 9/11. Is that true?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by JaJae

He said we've been bombing Iraq for 10 years before 9/11. Is that true?

On and off, yes.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by JaJae

He said we've been bombing Iraq for 10 years before 9/11. Is that true?

Prett