Pelosi doesn't like that she's losing in Congress, so she's changing the rules

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

If I remember correctly this is coming after a rather shameful streak of using congressional loopholes to prevent bill passage.

Yes, the GOP has been abusing "motion to recommit" and tricking very busy or new house members who had already agreed with the bill that when another vote came up on it, they voted yes because they agreed with the bill, but a motion to recommit actually means motion to end the bill, basically killing it

[Publius]

Reread the link I posted. Motion to Recommit is nothing more than a motion to send a bill back to committee. If that kills the bill, then the committee is at fault for not changing anything and sending it back to the floor.

Yes, that is what commonly happens. Yes, that is being abused by members of both parties when they are the minority. But the problem ultimately lies in the failure of the committee to return the bill to the floor. If the committee actually resubmitted the bill to the floor, then it would be a much less oft-abused tactic.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

oh look, you know how to quote only the parts of posts that agree with you. How mature! You must've gone to the Pelosi school of debate.

The other parts are irrelevant

Does Congress have a right? Yes
Are the Republicans playing hardball in Congress over these very issues? Yes, even now
What happens when one party plays softball and the other hardball? See 2002 election wipeout and then 2003 ramming whatever they wanted through the House and sometimes Senate without ever bothering to give half a shit about what 49% of congress and Americans thought

[Publius]

Also, the thing I have more of a problem with than handcuffing the motion to recommit is handcuffing the test of germaneness. If you read up on the test of germaneness, you'll see that if it is handcuffed you can basically have one party amending spending bills with amendments about things like gun control or abortion or whatever the hell else they want with absolutely no challenge.

I think we can all agree it's annoying and pisses us off when Congress passes a bill with tons of riders that are pretty close to unrelated. If you handcuff the test of germaneness, that situation will become even more common and even more extreme.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

Reread the link I posted. Motion to Recommit is nothing more than a motion to send a bill back to committee. If that kills the bill, then the committee is at fault for not changing anything and sending it back to the floor.

Yes, that is what commonly happens. Yes, that is being abused by members of both parties when they are the minority. But the problem ultimately lies in the failure of the committee to return the bill to the floor. If the committee actually resubmitted the bill to the floor, then it would be a much less oft-abused tactic.

You realize you're saying the primary fault of a party abusing the rules lies not with the offending party but with the party that doesn't parry abusive methods effectively

which btw, is ridiculous, these things take up a lot of manhours and it destroys the house's schedule, it isn't a little "oh we'll be back in 5 minutes with the bill again" it's a long painful process...it's killing the bill, you're asking that the Democrats be forced to resurrect all of these things when they have a country that wants new legislation, scandal after scandal coming out, an administration refusing to answer questions, and a war killing thousands of Americans

[Publius]

That government which governs least, governs best. I'm a fan of as much deadlock as possible. I'd rather the Congress pass 10 great bills a session than 1,000 shitty ones.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Yes, the GOP has been abusing "motion to recommit" and tricking very busy or new house members who had already agreed with the bill that when another vote came up on it, they voted yes because they agreed with the bill, but a motion to recommit actually means motion to end the bill, basically killing it

those republicans are well known tricksters

[JaJae]

Looks like Republicans won this one.
EricCantor.com :: Blog » Blog Archive » House Democrats Just Blinked

House Democrats Just Blinked


House Democrats wanted to change the rules to make it easier to raise taxes. They wanted to hide their Members from a direct vote on the tough issues. They wanted to change rules on minority floor rights that have been in place since 1822. They failed.

Today, House Republicans stood united and successfully fought against the House Democrats’ ill-advised rule changes, by reducing all business on the House Floor to a crawl. We used a creative set of motions and other parliamentary techniques to bring the fight.

In the end, House Democrats lost and the American People won.

[ballz2wallz]

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by JaJae

We shouldn't change the constitution because Pelosi is upset about something. That's absurd. What happens with the Dems aren't the majority anymore and they lose these rights? Will they want it changed back and not have enough votes? It's a bad precedent.

You bet! Not that this is such a shocker. I knew it was coming sooner or later.

And it is a clear slap in the face of their stated goal to work closely with the other side and have a bipartisan congress that can gets things done. I guess she reads the polls to mean only the Republicans in the Congress are the problem?

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Looks like Republicans won this one.
EricCantor.com :: Blog » Blog Archive » House Democrats Just Blinked

[Thorgrim]

im glad you guys are celebrating by directly posting from a conservative blog, imagine if I used Markos's words as basically my entire point, in a thread...

Anyway, I'm looking at the house action and every vote today the Democrats won...the GOP didn't win anything except possibly more hours, so far

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

im glad you guys are celebrating by directly posting from a conservative blog, imagine if I used Markos's words as basically my entire point, in a thread...

Anyway, I'm looking at the house action and every vote today the Democrats won...the GOP didn't win anything except possibly more hours, so far

It's the first hand account from the Chief Deputy Republican Whip. I don't think his first hand personal account of the incident is on par with Kos. Is the story false that they are going to back down from attempting to change the rules?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

It's the first hand account from the Chief Deputy Republican Whip. I don't think his first hand personal account of the incident is on par with Kos. Is the story false that they are going to back down from attempting to change the rules?

Ofcourse it's false, find me a statement where Democrats said they are done with the issue for good?

The GOP is throwing up roadblocks, and right now they are working on a strategy that will help them politically, they didn't "lose" or make some agreement to "back down"

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Ofcourse it's false, find me a statement where Democrats said they are done with the issue for good?

Sure.
TheHill.com - House members call temporary truce on procedural battle

Democrats will not change House rules governing the minority’s ability to use parliamentary procedure to alter bills, according to House Republicans who fought the effort.

House Republicans met with Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) yesterday afternoon, as they were successfully slowing House business by calling a series of procedural votes. They had threatened to keep on going until the Democratic leadership assured them that it would not change the rules governing the germaneness of an amendment to a bill.

Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) said he and Minority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) met with Hoyer, who assured them
that the Democrats will make no changes to the rules in the next two weeks, and would not do so without consulting the minority thereafter.

“They are not likely to go into that direction again,” Boehner said.

They've given up for now. I think what I've posted seems fairly accurate. I never made the argument that the Democrats would never give up again. I just made the argument that it looks like the Republicans won this little one.

[Thorgrim]

the GOP side of what happened, which, at best, says the demcrats will work on other house business for 2 weeks...what a stinging defeat...

even money says the GOP guaranteed the Dems they would limit their ridiculous activities, unless you think the democratic leadership went in there and started crying and going "we surrender, oh please help us!"

also, this is Hoyer not Pelosi...little good cop bad cop maybe...Hoyer doesn't have the authority to make any real deals, yet he was talking to the top GOPer in Congress

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

the GOP side of what happened,

You just refuse to admit the Dems lost this one

[thomez]

Originally Posted by JaJae

We shouldn't change the constitution because Pelosi is upset about something. That's absurd. What happens with the Dems aren't the majority anymore and they lose these rights? Will they want it changed back and not have enough votes? It's a bad precedent.

both parties do it all the time and I don't see it changing