Fuck Fox News - Page 2

ballz2wallz · 05-17-2007, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Look at the posts on the page. Even those that hate Paul are saying "But that doesn't make him a 9/11 Truther." Even the readers realize that Fox was WAY, WAY off with this one.

I'm not saying he's a truther. I'm saying he's doing the same thing as they are, blaming us.

ballz2wallz · 05-17-2007, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by lew

So, you disagree with the CIA and 9/11 Commission Report?

I don't know what they said

They said it's our fault we were attacked?

DosEquis · 05-17-2007, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Both say it's the US's fault, and I disagree with both.

So you don't think our foreign policy has consequences?

motivez · 05-17-2007, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Both say it's the US's fault, and I disagree with both.

Uh, one says it's a reaction to our foreign policy.

The other says we planned it and executed it ourselves.

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I included the details to show it doesn't make much of a difference.

Errr...

ballz2wallz · 05-17-2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

So you don't think our foreign policy has consequences?

Heh, we are not responsible for the decisions and actions of others.

Just as you cannot blame me for the things you do.

Galactic Gigolo · 05-17-2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

If you watn the whole video and not the soundbyte, go here

'they attacked cause we've been over there'

Sounds like placing the blame on us to me

Yeah, seriously. Saying that America has done anything wrong in the past is the same as accusing the President of a conspiracy to ATTACK AMERICA. The writers of the 9/11 Commission Report are a part of the 9/11 Truth movement too. Those fuckers!

motivez · 05-17-2007, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Heh, we are not responsible for the decisions and actions of others.

Just as you cannot blame me for the things you do.

There's a difference between being responsible for someone else's actions, and realizing that our actions abroad can indeed provoke someone to act.

ballz2wallz · 05-17-2007, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Galactic Gigolo

Yeah, seriously. Saying that America has done anything wrong in the past is the same as accusing the President of a conspiracy to ATTACK AMERICA. The writers of the 9/11 Commission Report are a part of the 9/11 Truth movement too. Those fuckers!

Tell me how our presence in the Middle East has been wrong, please. Especially when it's been mostly a business relationship with them?

Thorgrim · 05-17-2007, 02:46 PM

ah, so now libertarian realize it's not so easy facing the republican machine, and to think they only got a taste

it's time libertarian, when forced to "choose between two evils" picked the party that's fighting the 9/11-is-everything mentality towards international policy and domestic spying, rather than the party that was for small government 50 years ago

Publius · 05-17-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Heh, we are not responsible for the decisions and actions of others.

Just as you cannot blame me for the things you do.

So if I come into your house and kill your dog, rape your daughter, then kill her and your wife, but as I'm leaving you get home and kill me, obviously in no way did I invite you to want to take vengeance upon me, right?

We've been meddling in Middle East affairs for half a century, you're insane if you think that doesn't provoke hatred of the U.S. that can (and did) result in attacks on our nation. It doesn't make it right or acceptable, but it's understandable and a lot more logical than the typical GOP soundbyte "they did it because they hate freedom!"

SoFlaJDM · 05-17-2007, 02:47 PM

i love it

lew · 05-17-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I don't know what they said They said it's our fault we were attacked?

Former CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief Michael Scheuer has bluntly stated that politicians are lying to the American people about the terrorists' motives, "The politicians really are at great fault for not squaring with the American people. We're being attacked for what we do in the Islamic world, not for who we are or what we believe in or how we live. And there's a huge burden of guilt to be laid at Mr. Bush, Mr. Clinton, both parties for simply lying to the American people."

During the 9/11 Commission hearings, Vice Chair Lee Hamilton asked, "What motivated them to do it?" FBI Special Agent James Fitzgerald answered, "I believe they feel a sense of outrage against the United States. They identify with the Palestinian problem, they identify with people who oppose repressive regimes, and I believe they tend to focus their anger on the United States."

According to official U.S. government sources, the September 11 attacks were consistent with the mission statement of al-Qaeda. The overarching motivation for the present al-Qaeda campaign was set out in a 1998 fatwa issued by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Shaykh Mir Hamzah, and the (Amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh, Fazlur Rahman).[85]

The fatwa lists three "crimes and sins" committed by the Americans:

* U.S. military occupation of the Arabian Peninsula.
* U.S. aggression against the Iraqi people.
* U.S. support of Israel.

The fatwa states that the United States:

* Plunders the resources of the Arabian Peninsula.
* Dictates policy to the rulers of those countries.
* Supports abusive regimes and monarchies in the Middle East, thereby oppressing their people.
* Has military bases and installations upon the Arabian Peninsula, which violates the Muslim holy land, in order to threaten neighboring Muslim countries.
* Intends thereby to create disunion between Muslim states, thus weakening them as a political force.
* Supports Israel, and wishes to divert international attention from (and tacitly maintain) the occupation of Palestine.

garbagemanlb · 05-17-2007, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Tell me how our presence in the Middle East has been wrong, please. Especially when it's been mostly a business relationship with them?

Maybe our mere presence by placing military bases on what they consider holy land in Saudi Arabia?

I bet you'd be singing a different tune if China had bases on our soil here.

Publius · 05-17-2007, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Tell me how our presence in the Middle East has been wrong, please. Especially when it's been mostly a business relationship with them?

Yea, overthrowing a democratically elected government in Iran to install the Shah, that was totally correct and nothing but a business decision.

ballz2wallz · 05-17-2007, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

Yea, overthrowing a democratically elected government in Iran to install the Shah, that was totally correct and nothing but a business decision.

Especially when it's been mostly a business relationship with them?

garbagemanlb · 05-17-2007, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Especially when it's been mostly a business relationship with them?

Overthrowing democratic governments is a minor thing?

Linzyhop · 05-17-2007, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Jesus Christ, you can't see the fucking difference?

i can.

Galactic Gigolo · 05-17-2007, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Tell me how our presence in the Middle East has been wrong, please. Especially when it's been mostly a business relationship with them?

Encouraging sanctions against Iraq that killed thousands of innocent people in the name of getting rid of a dictator that was doing the same thing? If they dislike Saddam, why the hell shouldn't they dislike us? Or building a military base on Holy Land?

As Ron Paul said, we treat the Middle Eastern countries like they're our doormat. And you wonder why a country like Iran wants nuclear weapons?

Why won't you admit that it is absolutely absurd to compare Ron Paul's belief that our policy of interventionism played a part in the September 11th attacks with believing that the bombs were planted in the World Trade Center by America's politicians?

Publius · 05-17-2007, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Especially when it's been mostly a business relationship with them?

It doesn't matter if that is the ONLY thing we ever did in the middle east, overthrowing a democracy to install a dictator, when we claim to be the bastion of the free world, is reason enough for them to hate us.

Publius · 05-17-2007, 02:54 PM

and military bases are not a business decision and a bombing a country for a decade is not a business relationship.