The Aftermath of Pelosi's Diplomacy

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm sure you and Donkey thought talking to Iran and Syria after 9/11 was useless, yet both countries gave enormous aid to help us take out Al-Qaeda, Iran specifically intervened in Afghanistan to help us

Talk to any Chinese diplomat in the 1970s, the conversation was how communism would control the world and any attempt to stop it was fascist...if that's not calling someone your enemy, I don't know what is

Yet Nixon went there and we're still reaping the benefits of an open dialogue with China

I am not saying we should not talk to our enemies, but if we were not over there we'd have no reason at all to talk to syria. I think we should do what it takes to leave there and not talk to any of them. I think we should rid our dependence on oil from the region. They are no threat to us even if they don't like us. When we are not there they just fight amongst themselves and they have been doing it for thousands of years. I say just let them.

I do think we need dialog with China, Iran, and others. China can be a threat and Iran is developing a major threat aka nuclear weapon.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

You seem to keep forgetting one part. Pelosi wasn't authorized to talk to them. She had nothing to talk to them about. She couldn't make deals. She couldn't negotiate. Nothing. She did it for the attention. It did nothing but waste money and time.

The President could have told her she couldn't go, it is within his expansive presidency authority

She wasn't making deals or negotiating so I don't know why you brought that up, the only thing she did was what OTHER speakers have done in the past...visited countries we had troubles with, I already dealth with this in a past post, there is no need to rehash it again, if you want, check the archives for your answers

this is all offtopic

Ja's only point was that trip somehow damaged the democratic movement...which as I said, is a total joke and not even a real goal of the WH

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

And Nixon was what???? Was he the Majority leader at the time? Are you actually comparing Pelosi's foreign policy skills to Nixons???

I'm talking to Donkey and Dos about the general idea that envoys to stubborn countries are "useless"

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I am not saying we should not talk to our enemies, but if we were not over there we'd have no reason at all to talk to syria. I think we should do what it takes to leave there and not talk to any of them. I think we should rid our dependence on oil from the region. They are no threat to us even if they don't like us. When we are not there they just fight amongst themselves and they have been doing it for thousands of years. I say just let them.

I do think we need dialog with China, Iran, and others. China can be a threat and Iran is developing a major threat aka nuclear weapon.

As much as I'd like to go further on this point, it's offtopic

Please re-direct your comments to how Pelosi destroyed democracy that was about to take over Syria and form an US alliance that would solve all our problems

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

As much as I'd like to go further on this point, it's offtopic

Please re-direct your comments to how Pelosi destroyed democracy that was about to take over Syria and form an US alliance that would solve all our problems

I will not say Pelosi's trip damaged democracy. I do not think it helped democracy either. Also, just because a country is a democracy does not automatically make them an ally. In fact when the dust settles in Iraq i would be willing to bet a large portion of the population is going to be anti-american.

Further I would say that democracy is simply not for everybody and some countries are just not ready for that style and type of government.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm sure you and Donkey thought talking to Iran and Syria after 9/11 was useless, yet both countries gave enormous aid to help us take out Al-Qaeda, Iran specifically intervened in Afghanistan to help us

Talk to any Chinese diplomat in the 1970s, the conversation was how communism would control the world and any attempt to stop it was fascist...if that's not calling someone your enemy, I don't know what is

Yet Nixon went there and we're still reaping the benefits of an open dialogue with China

You're taking it too far. We're talking about Pelosi. We're talking about her trip. Expand that to anyone else we've sent recently and whether or not anything has come of our attempts to talk to them and you'll find they're all useless. Sure, the lines of communication are open....that's why I have no issue with her going there and chatting up a storm...in the end, if you're looking for RESULTS...there are none.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You're taking it too far. We're talking about Pelosi. We're talking about her trip. Expand that to anyone else we've sent recently and whether or not anything has come of our attempts to talk to them and you'll find they're all useless. Sure, the lines of communication are open....that's why I have no issue with her going there and chatting up a storm...in the end, if you're looking for RESULTS...there are none.

Make another thread about the usefulness of talking to Syria, and not only do they have lots of reasons not to bend over and say "we'll do anything master"

I'm not sure the US would even like to talk to Syria, under any terms they gave, because the quasi-US friendly Lebanese government draws a significant part of its strength from being anti-Syrian...if Syria said "fine, whatever, Iran funds Hezbollah anyway, what do we care, now also tell us exactly what you want us to do about your iraq problem" we'd be stuck inbetween a rock and a hard place, we'd look like the most brutal kind of imperialists if we didn't accept their offer, but if we did, the Lebanese government might fall without a scapegoat to blame their own problems on...also, we'd be put in a hard position since the iraqi insurgency is self sustaining in most parts and doesn't need outside help, yet if it's finally established to be home grown, we look like idiots repressing a purely Iraqi nationalist movement, ontop of that, Syria by those terms would have better relations with the US than Israel, and Israel has already lost enough face, and with most powerful lobby in the US being the Israeli lobby, we'd have many people against making Israel look bad, even if it helped out national image (see Palestine peace talks post-Clinton, Lebanese war of 2006, etc)

[thomez]

I love the suggestion that Syria should seal their border when we can't even seem to seal our own.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by thomez

I love the suggestion that Syria should seal their border when we can't even seem to seal our own.

I suggest a wall of these (official seal of the republican party)



While putting this on repeat really loud on the Iraqi side of the border. Everyone would stay out.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

She repeated WH talking points

WH talking points were... Damn that Syria is allowing insurgents across the border. Damn that Syria is a rogue dictatorship who hates Israel. The talking points weren't "Hey Israel wants peace!1!11! Snap a photo of my good side!! Oh by the way could ya please start patrolling your border!!111! I am the greatest diplomat in the world.. my approval ratings will go up now."

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

WH talking points were... Damn that Syria is allowing insurgents across the border. Damn that Syria is a rogue dictatorship who hates Israel. The talking points weren't "Hey Israel wants peace!1!11! Snap a photo of my good side!! Oh by the way could ya please start patrolling your border!!111! I am the greatest diplomat in the world.. my approval ratings will go up now."

I believe it was more like, Syria should do more to work against terrorism *check*

Anything about Israel is offtopic...on your own thread

There are other dictatorships in the ME who hate Israel, Syria actually has a reason, not very "rogue them"

Again this is all offtopic, and most of this post is speculation made up in a way to insult

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I believe it was more like, Syria should do more to work against terrorism *check*

Anything about Israel is offtopic...on your own thread

There are other dictatorships in the ME who hate Israel, Syria actually has a reason, not very "rogue them"

Again this is all offtopic, and most of this post is speculation made up in a way to insult

This isn't your thread. Don't tell people it's "offtopic". The original thread talks about:

Pelosi
Syria
Talks
Israel

All the things that JaJae brought up. If you don't want to answer then don't. But don't play like he is talking about something completely unrelated to this thread.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I believe it was more like, Syria should do more to work against terrorism *check*

Anything about Israel is offtopic...on your own thread

There are other dictatorships in the ME who hate Israel, Syria actually has a reason, not very "rogue them"

Again this is all offtopic, and most of this post is speculation made up in a way to insult

It is not off topic. This thread is about the boggled diplomacy attempt by Pelosi in Syria which heavily revolves around her actions regarding Israel... which is why it was the first thing mentioned in the original post.

Although it was satire, it pretty much was the truth. Her trip to Syria was a self-serving trip. She wanted to attempt to make her and the Dems look like they're making progress or doing something good to fix the problems in the Middle East, while Bush is the one causing the problems. It blew up in her face.

The White House talking points weren't what she said because the White House talking points were to stand strong against Syria, not confront them like Pelosi did. The fact is Pelosi went to Syria even after being told it was a bad idea and they didn't think she should. She then pressured Israel for a message and distorted it to make herself look good which not only pissed off Israel, but she was one of the only politicians naive enough to buy the bait Syria was selling her in response. Perhaps she wanted to believe it so much she did or perhaps she was just playing stupid. But then to top it all off, her trip showed there was a rift in the US in regards to policy against them so they went on a rampage jailing and torturing people attempting Democracy and woman's rights, effectively suppressing any Democractic movement.

The only defense I've heard thus far in her favor is that she was repeating White House talking points. Which is completely false, especially considering the White House told her not to go and suggested she keep her mouth shut.

[Thorgrim]

i get your point, some Syrian said Pelosi's trip hurt her, I adressed that

you want to bring in everything and the kitchen sink for the 100th time, you can see my answers in the archives...a washington post article you ALREADY MADE A THREAD ABOUT

bottom line: Pelosi's trip had no effect on Syria's laughable "democratic movement"

/thread