**CIA**ABC demonstrating blind hatred for this administration and hurting the country

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

It wasn't a violation of the US constitution. It wasn't against international law. If it is classified keep your mouth shut. How can you defend this?

It's not against the constitution? Please show me where the constitution allows the president to do something like this. Remember that the constitution is an enabling document.

But even if it did say "The president is allowed to make organizations and have them do what the fuck ever he wants them to internationally" it's STILL not a good thing to do. As much as we've talked on here about how bad we look in the middle east, and even doing this EXACT SAME THING back in the 70's which directly contributed to 9/11, you're ok with him doing it again?

The news is a GREAT method of checks in which wrong actions can be exposed. If what they wrote is true, then I'm glad they did it.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Publius

if there is a proven and credible threat to our nation, yes. Otherwise, we really have no business involving ourselves in the situation. World police, yay!

I agree that we shouldn't police the world but I do believe that allowing these nations to attain nuclear weapons is just insanity at its finest.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I am not so sure that ABC can be blamed in the entirety for this. ABC and those 'sources' share equal blame in my opinion.


Oh, and we removed a leader from Iran before... seems to have turned out well

The plan is stupid.

I agree that both ABC and the sources are equally responsible. However, I disagree that the plan is necessarily stupid. Hurting their economy could slow their process to creating a nuclear bomb and could put pressure on them to help diplomacy.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I agree that we shouldn't police the world but I do believe that allowing these nations to attain nuclear weapons is just insanity at its finest.

While my gut agrees with you, speaking legally unless we can prove that they have no intention of abiding by proper nuclear regulations and/or intend to provide nuclear munitions to terrorist organizations ... I really don't see how it is any of our business to stop them.

Bush can't use the non-proliferation treaty as his standard, because India and Pakistan already broke that treaty by developing nuclear arms and yet we embrace India with open arms, and allied ourselves with Pakistan in the early going on the War in Afghanistan.

It really isn't our place to pick and choose which nations can do something unless we can credibly prove that allowing them to do so would present an imminent threat to the United States.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

It's not against the constitution? Please show me where the constitution allows the president to do something like this. Remember that the constitution is an enabling document.

But even if it did say "The president is allowed to make organizations and have them do what the fuck ever he wants them to internationally" it's STILL not a good thing to do. As much as we've talked on here about how bad we look in the middle east, and even doing this EXACT SAME THING back in the 70's which directly contributed to 9/11, you're ok with him doing it again?

The news is a GREAT method of checks in which wrong actions can be exposed. If what they wrote is true, then I'm glad they did it.

How were my rights as a US Citizen violated by this? The constitution was setup to protect you and I as US citizens. Our rights clearly were not violated here.

This fairly common activity from one country to the next and having a news agency undermine it is ridiculous.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Publius

While my gut agrees with you, speaking legally unless we can prove that they have no intention of abiding by proper nuclear regulations and/or intend to provide nuclear munitions to terrorist organizations ... I really don't see how it is any of our business to stop them.

Bush can't use the non-proliferation treaty as his standard, because India and Pakistan already broke that treaty by developing nuclear arms and yet we embrace India with open arms, and allied ourselves with Pakistan in the early going on the War in Afghanistan.

It really isn't our place to pick and choose which nations can do something unless we can credibly prove that allowing them to do so would present an imminent threat to the United States.

Their constant and consistent talk of wiping Israel off the map isn't cause enough?

[Publius]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I agree that both ABC and the sources are equally responsible. However, I disagree that the plan is necessarily stupid. Hurting their economy could slow their process to creating a nuclear bomb and could put pressure on them to help diplomacy.

on the other hand, it could breed yet more hatred of the United States amongst a population that is generally nowhere NEAR as hateful of the U.S. as their government. We should be trying to make friends in the middle east right now, not alienating ever larger numbers of people.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I agree that we shouldn't police the world but I do believe that allowing these nations to attain nuclear weapons is just insanity at its finest.

If Iran creates a nuclear weapon they will sell to anyone who can afford one. Tensions between Israel and the middle east will skyrocket. And we will be involved in that. The body count will be a lot higher after they develop the weapon. Preventing the current Iranian regime from getting a nuclear weapon should be paramount in our foreign policy.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Publius

on the other hand, it could breed yet more hatred of the United States amongst a population that is generally nowhere NEAR as hateful of the U.S. as their government. We should be trying to make friends in the middle east right now, not alienating ever larger numbers of people.

I agree, it definately will breed that now thanks to ABC>

[Publius]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Their constant and consistent talk of wiping Israel off the map isn't cause enough?

Last I checked we live in the United States, not Israel. If it is a credible threat to Israel, let the Israeli military and government services deal with it (like they dealt with that reactor in Iraq back in the 1980s). Until it is proven that this is a threat to the United States, I see no reason to spend our money and potentially lives of our citizens on it.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

How were my rights as a US Citizen violated by this? The constitution was setup to protect you and I as US citizens. Our rights clearly were not violated here.

This fairly common activity from one country to the next and having a news agency undermine it is ridiculous.

No, the constitution was setup to tell the three forms of federal government and state governments what they are allowed to do.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I agree, it definately will breed that now thanks to ABC>

You really think the Iranian government is dumb enough not to realize someone is tinkering with their currency, bonds, etc. on the international markets? You really think that, given that they WILL notice it, they wouldn't immediately lay the blame on the U.S. anyway? I really don't think this story has anywhere near the importance as a propaganda tool to Iran as you think, they'd be blaming us anyway.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by JaJae

If Iran creates a nuclear weapon they will sell to anyone who can afford one. Tensions between Israel and the middle east will skyrocket. And we will be involved in that. The body count will be a lot higher after they develop the weapon. Preventing the current Iranian regime from getting a nuclear weapon should be paramount in our foreign policy.

If intelligence can prove your first sentence, I agree. Otherwise, it really isn't our place.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by JaJae

If Iran creates a nuclear weapon they will sell to anyone who can afford one. Tensions between Israel and the middle east will skyrocket. And we will be involved in that. The body count will be a lot higher after they develop the weapon. Preventing the current Iranian regime from getting a nuclear weapon should be paramount in our foreign policy.

I agree.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I agree.

as do i, IF we can prove that they would sell it to anyone that would buy. I assure you of one thing: if we sanction Iran and attempt to ruin their economy, it certainly increases the likelihood of them selling nuclear arms to rogue groups if for no other reason than to inject more funds into their economy in the event that our actions don't end their ability to pursue nuclear arms. I think before we take any action against Iran we must prove two things, in the following order:

1.) there is a real and credible threat to the United States from a nuclear-capable Iran, be it through the Iranian government itself or a proven likelihood that Iran will sell those weapons to rogue groups.

2.) any action against Iran would unquestionably prevent them from producing nuclear arms in any capacity.

It would be just wonderful, after all, if we did all this stuff that pisses off even moderate Iranians then they go ahead and sink what funds they do have into a nuclear program, develop the weapon, and then sell them to the highest bidder in order to fund their government.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by JaJae

If Iran creates a nuclear weapon they will sell to anyone who can afford one. Tensions between Israel and the middle east will skyrocket. And we will be involved in that. The body count will be a lot higher after they develop the weapon. Preventing the current Iranian regime from getting a nuclear weapon should be paramount in our foreign policy.

I'd like to know why you think Iran would be dumb enough to sell nuclear technology to 'anyone'.

Because of that comment about 'wiping Israel off the map'? Please...the government in Iran is intelligent enough to know that things can be traced back to them, and if it was ever proven they sold anything to terrorists, they would lose everything (and I would bet the most important thing to them is keeping themselves in power).

I really think people in this country, who feel like a threat is around every corner and refuse to realize that there exist options between black and white are hurting this country tremendously.

[thomez]

Sounds to me like they printed what was common sense, everyone in the world knows we have and will continue to try and undermine the Iranian regime and that we support the pro-democratic forces inside the nation.

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by Publius

Last I checked we live in the United States, not Israel. If it is a credible threat to Israel, let the Israeli military and government services deal with it (like they dealt with that reactor in Iraq back in the 1980s). Until it is proven that this is a threat to the United States, I see no reason to spend our money and potentially lives of our citizens on it.

you forget that Jewwy Jewington has a lot of say in this government.