Al Gore: Will he run? Should he run? What are his chances?

[redwards]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Without a doubt. He's my favorite Democratic candidate right now and would seriously consider voting for him this upcoming election, but I think his muslim history no matter how ridiculous it is is going to hurt him. He looks like a Muslim... and the words are going to keep coming out.

If you're admitting that you were wrong about the school and mostly wrong about his father, and that this really is just a smear campaign, then why don't you start referring to it as 'the smear campaign' instead of 'history'.

[Thorgrim]

"looks like a muslim"

that's cute, really

why don't you walk down NY and tell some guy he looks like a Jew

oh wait, you're only sensitive to Judeo-Christian religions

[Dumpy Dooby]

I think Gore looks like a Taoist. I don't want to support a candidate that looks like he might be part of the religion that is responsible for the creation of gun powder. No sir.


That's my take on him.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by redwards

If you're admitting that you were wrong about the school and mostly wrong about his father, and that this really is just a smear campaign, then why don't you start referring to it as 'the smear campaign' instead of 'history'.

Dumpy and I both knew about Obama's history. It's talked about on the forum a lot. You are correct in saying it can be considered a smear campaign. But when it comes down to it on election night a good percentage of the country is going to perceive Obama as the Muslim candidate. It sucks, but it's reality.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

He's not running for president so why should he be making big speeches about healthcare when people WANT to hear him talk about global warming?

His presentation is amazing, and everday it's being refined, expanded and more accepted

He has amazing experience as VP and before that...he wouldn't be challenged on security or foreign policy...well anyone would but he'd only be 2nd to richardson on that, he's also very smart, polished, his old image won the popular, his new image would have won by 10pts and that was before so many people couldn't stand the GOP

He's easily the most liberal guy we could get in the WH, and we'd get him in a total walk...it's so frustrating that he HASN'T been running

He was on Olberman the other night, you ask him a question about his book or the environment and he is sharp. He was asked policitcal questions about the war and he switched back to the slow speaking flat tone that made him boring.

I agree he could and probably would win. I also think he would be a good president overall and would most likely vote for him.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

He was on Olberman the other night, you ask him a question about his book or the environment and he is sharp. He was asked policitcal questions about the war and he switched back to the slow speaking flat tone that made him boring.

I agree he could and probably would win. I also think he would be a good president overall and would most likely vote for him.

Well

1) He doesn't want people thinking he's about to announce
2) He doesn't want to bash the republicans TOO MUCH as he's trying to get many of them on board to help fight GW

If i were him, I'd probably hit a flat tone too, because it's like "christ, if i sound all excited people are going to think im running for president, if i sound too partisan but not excited, ill sound like i dont want GOP help in GW"

[thatguyoverthere]

Great thread. Good job calling them out on Obama's muslim "history."

I don't know about you guys, but I've seen a few fire breathing partisan speeches by Gore in the last six years, and they were anything but boring IMO. Either way, I want the candidate that can understand and deal with the problem, not the one that can talk about it in the most entertaining way.

I'd vote for Gore... again. I thought he was presidential material way back in 1988, and he's only gotten better since then.

But to be honest, looking at ALL the candidates, declared AND undeclared, on both sides, every single one of them is such a huge step up in quality from the current occupant it's amazing. I'm happy with even the ones I don't like.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

I think Gore looks like a Taoist. I don't want to support a candidate that looks like he might be part of the religion that is responsible for the creation of gun powder. No sir.


That's my take on him.

[redwards]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Dumpy and I both knew about Obama's history. It's talked about on the forum a lot. You are correct in saying it can be considered a smear campaign. But when it comes down to it on election night a good percentage of the country is going to perceive Obama as the Muslim candidate. It sucks, but it's reality.

You specifically stated that he went to a Muslim school. He didn't. How can you claim that you know about his history? Clearly, you're wrong.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Dumpy and I both knew about Obama's history. It's talked about on the forum a lot. You are correct in saying it can be considered a smear campaign. But when it comes down to it on election night a good percentage of the country is going to perceive Obama as the Muslim candidate. It sucks, but it's reality.

This was my point originally. It has nothing to do with Obama's actual religious affiliation. It has everything to do with how his image is being portrayed, and so far, the Republicans have done a great job at smearing him.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by redwards

You specifically stated that he went to a Muslim school. He didn't. How can you claim that you know about his history? Clearly, you're wrong.

He did. He went to a Muslim elementary school as well as a Christian one. He was raised in a Muslim area. His father was Muslim, but didn't really practice. But most importantly he looks Muslim, has a different name and will appear during his candidacy as being the Muslim candidate. The more he denies it the more people will think about it, and if he doesn't bring it up the GOP will. Right or wrong, I see it happening.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

But most importantly he looks Muslim...

He looks like a mix of Black and something else.

Just how do you think a muslim looks?


Like this?







What about this?








Is this a muslim?








What about this guy?






Those are all muslims and they look quite different.

[redwards]

Originally Posted by JaJae

He did. He went to a Muslim elementary school as well as a Christian one.

Did you not read the story I posted debunking that as a complete fabrication? Holy hell, you're worse than the spin machine.

Google "Obama Madrassa." These are the first stories that come up:

Think Progress » CNN Debunks False Obama ‘Madrassa’ Smear


News Hounds: Fox and Friends 'Corrects' Obama Madrassa Claim


Alter: The Obama Madrassa Hoax - Newsweek Between the Lines ...



Crooks and Liars » CNN Debunks Obama “Madrassa” Smear


ABC News: Obama Goes On Campaign to Debunk Madrassa Education ...



...it was a fucking public school, now would you please shut the fuck up with your claim, or are you going to shift into "They found WMDs!! "

He was raised in a Muslim area. His father was Muslim, but didn't really practice. But most importantly he looks Muslim, has a different name and will appear during his candidacy as being the Muslim candidate.

He looks like a Black Man, not an Arab. The Nation of Islam bullshit lost popularity when Malcolm X got shot, didn't it? Obama is an African name.

The more he denies it the more people will think about it, and if he doesn't bring it up the GOP will. Right or wrong, I see it happening.

Denies WHAT? The fucking swiftboat maneuver retards like you are pulling here?

[JaJae]

The oversized text is obnoxious.

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Barack Obama as Ideologically Muslim

I've stated numerous times in this thread that his father was a Muslim. Which is true. I didn't say he is a Muslim.

Barack Obama's father (also named Barack Obama) was born on the shores of Lake Victoria in Alego, Kenya. Although the elder Obama was raised a Muslim, no evidence supports the claim that he was ever a "radical Muslim," and Senator Obama's family histories note that his father was an atheist or agnostic by the time he married the younger Obama's mother.

In other words, his father was a Muslim as I have stated numerous times in this thread and as is evidenced in Obama's own memoirs. Strike one.

Also:

When he was a child in Indonesia, Obama spent a couple of years at a Catholic school and another couple years at a school that was predominantly Muslim. In his 2006 book, [i]The Audacity of Hope[i], Obama elaborated on his early schooling, explaining that he attended both Catholic and Muslim schools in Indonesia - not out of any religious affiliation, but because his mother wanted him to obtain the best education possible under the circumstances.

In his own book, once again we find that Obama did in fact attend Muslim schools in his childhood. Strike two.

Is Obama Muslim? No. But does he have a "history" of Muslim in his family? Absolutely. Denying that is absurd. He admits it in his own autobiography.

We've discussed this many times on this forum. I apologize if you've missed previous conversation, but I think just about every person knows Obama isn't kneeling East throughout the day. However, he does have a Muslim history that will follow him if he gets the Democratic nomination. There's really no two ways around that. I'm not even going to bother clicking your links, but I assume they all say Obama isn't a Muslim and the claims about him were false. Yes, they were sensationalized, but the lesser facts that his father was a Muslim and he has attended Muslim schools are facts that he readily admits. Denying it is just as absurd as not voting for him because of it.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrum

He looks like a mix of Black and something else.

Just how do you think a muslim looks?

Those are all muslims and they look quite different.

Yes they do all look different. However, much like Lieberman looks like a Jew and has the Jewish name, Obama looks like a Muslim and has a similar name. He will be perceived as such. It sucks, but that's reality. Is it wrong to stereotype and associate it, of course. But I don't think that will stop people from doing it naturally.

If we were at war in a Buddhist country and an Buddhist looking man with a Buddhist name were running for president I'd say the same thing. Regardless of how privileged their youth was and regardless of the little Buddhism was in his history, that little shred is going to be something people are going to key in on. We can say Buddhists come in all sizes, shapes and colors, that's all true. But people have their stereotypes, and Obama looks stereotypically Muslim.

[redwards]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The oversized text is obnoxious.

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Barack Obama as Ideologically Muslim

I've stated numerous times in this thread that his father was a non-practicing Muslim. Which is true.

His father became an atheist before he was conceived, and divorced his mother and left when he was 2, if you think that's relevant.

In other words, his father was a Muslim as I have stated numerous times in this thread and as is evidenced in Obama's own memoirs. Strike one.

Strike one WHAT?

Jesus, JaJae, you're actually editing your quotes for bias now. I like how you removed the pertinent point.

You quote:

Originally Posted by Snopes

When he was a child in Indonesia, Obama spent a couple of years at a Catholic school and another couple years at a school that was predominantly Muslim.

and you omit

(because Indonesia itself is predominantly Muslim)

But you quote the rest of the paragraph. You intentionally removed that line. How dishonest is that? My highschool was predominently christian, but I don't call it a christian school, because it was a public school, just like Obama's.

How about another quote from your article:

Originally Posted by Snopes

"It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a mixed school."

Originally Posted by JaJae

In his own book, once again we find that Obama did in fact attend Muslim schools in his childhood. Strike two.

No. He did not. Schools which were predominantly muslim by population, just like the country itself. By your logic every school in America is a christian school. I think a lot of people would have a problem with that blatantly false description.

Is Obama Muslim? No. But does he have a "history" of Muslim in his family, absolutely. Denying that is absurd. He admits it in his own autobiography.

Yes, his father, who split when he was 2, was a muslim at one time, before he was born, and an atheist by the time he met Obama's mother. We know. I think his step-father was also a muslim. But he didn't attend any islamic schools, which is why I'm calling you out on your lying.

We've discussed this many times on this forum. I apologize if you've missed previous conversation, but I think just about every person knows Obama isn't kneeling East throughout the day. However, he does have a Muslim history that will follow him if he gets the Democratic nomination. There's really no two ways around that. I'm not even going to bother clicking your links, but I assume they all say Obama isn't a Muslim and the claims about him were false. Yes, they were sensationalized, but the lesser facts that his father was a Muslim and he has attended Muslim schools are facts that he readily admits. Denying it is just as absurd as not voting for him because of it.

Again, your generalization that schools in which the population are predominantly muslim are muslim schools is absolutely as absurd as my claiming that all American schools are christian schools, and almost as stupid as your claim that he "looks like a muslim."

[redwards]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Yes they do all look different. However, much like Lieberman looks like a Jew and has the Jewish name, Obama looks like a Muslim and has a similar name. He will be perceived as such. It sucks, but that's reality. Is it wrong to stereotype and associate it, of course. But I don't think that will stop people from doing it naturally.

What he looks like is your purely subjective opinion which no one whom I have ever spoken to about him shares. I have never heard that before. He looks like a black man to me.

His name is wholly unrelated to islam or islamic countries, and again is your purely subjective opinion, which I have never heard uttered elsewhere.

Where do you get this crap? Do you make it up, or are you hanging out at some neocon smear forum?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by redwards

His father became an atheist before he was conceived, and divorced his mother and left when he was 2, if you think that's relevant.

So in other words I was correct. His father was a Muslim.

Jesus, JaJae, you're actually editing your quotes for bias now. I like how you removed the pertinent point.

Actually since I had to retype them by hand because my browser wouldn't allow me to copy/paste I removed all parenthesis from both paragraphs, hence the link provided. The fact that his home country was abundantly Muslim and his mother decided to send him to both sets of a schools, Muslim and Christian doesn't seem to hurt that fact that he attended a Muslim school. Non-Muslims typically didn't attend the Muslim schools.

You're completely mischaracterizing the events. I assume you haven't read the part of his novel that is relevant to his schooling. I read it in the bookstore when the story broke and his book supposedly explained it in detail.

It was a Muslim school. They had both Muslim and Christian schools. His mother made him attend the Muslim school (which was available because the area he grew up in was mostly Muslim) as well as the Christian school. He 100% admits it was a Muslim school and he had the ability to attend a non-Muslim school, but his mother and non-practicing Muslim step-father decided it was in his best interest to send him to a Muslim school as well so he could see both sides.

I can't find the quotes from Audacity of Hope online, but I did find this one from his other book.

In Indonesia, I’d spent 2 years at a Muslim school, 2 years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies. In the Catholic school, when it came time to pray, I’d pretend to close my eyes, then peek around the room. Nothing happened. No angels descended.

The facts are very simple here. When debating about Obama's upbringing and childhood why not use his own recollection and his own words. He's very honest and humbled i