Over 3,500 US soldiers have now been killed in Iraq

[Thorgrim]

Following are the latest figures for military deaths in Iraq and Iraqi civilians killed in attacks since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003:

U.S.-LED COALITION FORCES:

United States 3,501

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L06285327.htm

In my view, the more US soldier deaths that exceed 9/11 in the failing occupation of Iraq, the less logical our occupation seems, this is another reminder that we should not be involved, as Ron Paul would say.

Does this change anyone's view on the occupation? Does anyone care?

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

In my view, the more US soldier deaths that exceed 9/11 in the failing occupation of Iraq, the less logical our occupation seems, this is another reminder that we should not be involved, as Ron Paul would say.

Does this change anyone's view on the occupation? Does anyone care?

Why are you comparing two unreleated death tolls ?

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Why are you comparing two unreleated death tolls ?

Because it's logical. We invaded Iraq as an efficient cause of 9/11 ushering in the awareness of danger abroad.

[Stylerod]

Still less then the first 3 months of fighting in N. Africa when we entered WW2. And that was fighting mostly Italians and Vichy French.

Our military

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Still less then the first 3 months of fighting in N. Africa when we entered WW2. And that was fighting mostly Italians and Vichy French.

Our military

It's also less than three days at Gettysburg...so I guess everyday we don't lose over several thousand soldiers over three days we should be jumping for joy and praising the US military

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

It's also less than three days at Gettysburg...so I guess everyday we don't lose over several thousand soldiers over three days we should be jumping for joy and praising the US military

Exactly. We should thank God every day that our military is good enough that we can keep casualties down this low after having been there so long.

We've been there for years facing an enemy that hides among their own people and loves to kill their own people. It's a pretty tough war, and our men and women are doing a great job.

[Nonphixion]

Yeah they are doing a good job, though I am sure significantly less than 3,500 would be dead if those 3,000 translators weren't kicked out. Our troops could understand the Iraqis a bit better than they do now.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Does anyone care?

I guess I'll be the first to exert sympathy and thanks for our soldiers and their service. They are doing their duty in an unstable region and every one of those soldiers lost is a shame. These soldiers were brave, intelligent individuals who stood for something, even if they had political reservations and questions of their chain of command. Our country is worse with their loss.

It's interesting how people ask if we care about the political aspect of the deaths and not the soldier's lives and their families. It's a shame when the numbers are used in such a way. God bless our troops and the people who continue to serve our country, even when it is unpopular. I wish they'd come home soon, but respect and support their service.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Following are the latest figures for military deaths in Iraq and Iraqi civilians killed in attacks since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003:

U.S.-LED COALITION FORCES:

United States 3,501

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L06285327.htm

In my view, the more US soldier deaths that exceed 9/11 in the failing occupation of Iraq, the less logical our occupation seems, this is another reminder that we should not be involved, as Ron Paul would say.

Does this change anyone's view on the occupation? Does anyone care?

Of course I care. I care a lot. Every time we lose a man in battle, it's a terrible thing. But no, that doesn't change my opinion on the war. We still did the right thing, and if the decision were up to me, I'd still do it again. What's right and what's wrong don't change based on how many lives it cost.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Exactly. We should thank God every day that our military is good enough that we can keep casualties down this low after having been there so long.

We've been there for years facing an enemy that hides among their own people and loves to kill their own people. It's a pretty tough war, and our men and women are doing a great job.

This is still the safest and most sanitary war we've ever fought (possibly that ANYBODY has ever fought), and the fact that our soldiers are able to do such a great job while having to play at being police speaks volumes.

[Cicero]

If the US still fought wars the way we used to, the whole Iraq fiasco would have been finished in a matter of months, with far fewer US military casualties. Sadly, we are more concerned with deaths of enemy civillians than we are our own troops.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Cicero

If the US still fought wars the way we used to, the whole Iraq fiasco would have been finished in a matter of months, with far fewer US military casualties. Sadly, we are more concerned with deaths of enemy civillians than we are our own troops.

I'm not really sure about that, the US occupation and oppression of the Phillipines was quite brutal and lasted for a long long time

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Cicero

If the US still fought wars the way we used to, the whole Iraq fiasco would have been finished in a matter of months, with far fewer US military casualties. Sadly, we are more concerned with deaths of enemy civillians than we are our own troops.

Enemy civilians?

Who would they be?

[Galactic Gigolo]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Enemy civilians?

Who would they be?

Any brown people who didn't welcome us as liberators.

[Joe_Cool]

On May 11 of this year, Doug Zembiec, a USMC Major from my hometown and a close friend of my best friend, nicknamed "The lion of Fallujah" by the marines who knew him, was killed leading a raid on insurgents. Months before, when his friend Major Ray Mendoza was killed in combat, he wrote a letter to Mendoza's children to help them understand their father's death.

I think his words do a far better job of explaining my feelings on the war than mine ever could:

Dear Kiana and Alek,

Ray and I had a conversation late May in 2004 while we were deployed to Iraq. He spoke of why he fought. He fought to give the people of Iraq a chance. He fought to crush those who would terrorize and enslave others. He fought to protect his fellow Marines.

The last thing he told me that day was, "I don't want any of these people (terrorists) telling my kids how to act, or how to dress. I don't want to worry about the safety of my children." Kiana and Alek, your father fought for many things, but always remember, he fought for you.

As you fight this battle we call life, you will find your challenges greater, your adversity larger, your enemies more numerous. The beautiful thing is, you will grow stronger, smarter, faster, and you will overcome the obstacles in your way.

No one could've better prepared you than your father. In the month and a half your family stayed with me in Laguna Niguel, Calif., while waiting for base housing to open up, I saw how, with the help of your incredible mother, he instilled in you the essentials to life:

Live with integrity, for without integrity we deceive ourselves, we live in a house of cards.

Fight for what you believe, for without valor, we lose our freedom.

Be willing to sacrifice, for anything worthy in life requires sacrifice.

Be disciplined, for it is discipline that builds the foundation of your success.

You will encounter misguided people in your life who may question America's attempt to help the people of Iraq and the Middle East. These pathetic windbags, who have nothing so sacred in their lives that they would be willing to fight for it, will argue and debate endlessly on what we should've done.

While they criticize, they forget the truth, or conveniently overlook the fact that it takes men and women of action, willing to make a sacrifice, to free the enslaved, to advance the cause of freedom.

Our great nation was built on the shoulders of men like your father. While the nay-sayers and cowards hid in the shadows sniveling that nothing was worth dying for, men like your dad carved our liberty away from the English, freed the slaves and kept the Union together, saved Europe from the Germans twice; rescued the Pacific away from the Japanese, defeated communism, and right now, fight terrorism and plant the seeds of democracy in the Middle East.

Your father was a warrior, but being a warrior is not always about fighting. He was patient with those he led, and he understood people make mistakes. He cared about the men he led as if they were his own family. To him, they were. His work ethic was tremendous. But he made time for his family, to enjoy life. He was balanced, at equilibrium. He was an inspiration. He was my friend.

In your future, when you are pushed against a wall, in a tight spot, outnumbered and seemingly overwhelmed, it may be tempting to give up, or even use the absence of your father as a crutch, as an excuse for failure.

Don't. Your father's passing, while tragic, serves as an endless source of your empowerment. Your father would not want you to wallow in self-pity. I know you will honor him by living your life in the positive example he set. Respect and remember him. Drive on with your lives. Serve something greater than yourself. Enjoy all the good things that life has to offer. That is what he would want.

Kiana! I have never met a more capable young lady in my life. You are the most well-read, articulate, disciplined young person I know. Often I tell people of the arm-bar you demonstrated on me in your parents' garage. When you become a worldwide Judo champion, I will say with great pride, "that woman nearly torqued my shoulder out when she was 11 years old!"
If my daughter grows up with a quarter of the strength of your principles, determination and intelligence, she will be an incredible human being. Like your mother, you are a beautiful woman, a fact of which you should be proud.

Alek! You are blessed with your father's strength of character and his unbreakable will and his broad shoulders. Your mother gave you her determination and unwavering mental toughness.
Your mother told me the story of you hanging up the sign, "Be a leader, not a follower." My eyes well up every time that I think of you doing that. My eyes fill not with tears of sadness, but of pride, to know you grasped the mindset your father passed on to you. This mindset will allow you to be a leader and protector like your father, and one day, to raise an upright, solid-as-a-rock family of your own.

When I look in your eyes, I see your father. Courageous, determined and resolute, your father embodied all that is virtuous in a warrior. Even now, you strive to embody his same character. Remember, there will never be any pressure for you to be exactly like your father. Be your own man, but build your character in his image.

Many people may be concerned about your future because of the early passing of your father. I don't worry at all. Your dad gave you all you ever need to become a great woman and a great man. I know your father would have told you to be your own hero/heroine. Don't wait for someone to rise up and lead you to victory, to your goals. If you do, you might wait for a very long time.

Ray died as a warrior, sword in hand, in service of his country, his comrades and you, his loved ones. His spirit and example give us all hope, reaffirms our faith. Your father reminds us there are men willing to fight for people that they don't even know so that all may live in peace.

I joined the Corps to serve beside men like your father. There is no other Marine I'd rather have protecting my flank in combat than your dad. Even now, as I write this letter in Iraq, I will honor him on the field of battle by slaying as many of our enemies as possible, and fight until our mission is accomplished.

You will always be in our lives. Please stay in touch. We will always be in your corner for assistance, advice or just conversation. Pam and I plan to retire in Idaho and would love for you to visit us so we can take you white-water rafting and mountain climbing.

Very Respectfully,
Doug

+

[David Octavius]

People on the far right seem to forget that a growing number of anti-war people are army vets fresh out of Iraq, and a few have already ran as Democrats in federal elections - so the silly right wing attempts to paint every anti-war supporter as a Cindy Sheehan is just more smoke and mirrors, its time we stop this and debate on the merits of the war in larger context of the war on terror and our interests in the ME

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

People on the far right seem to forget that a growing number of anti-war people are army vets fresh out of Iraq, and a few have already ran as Democrats in federal elections - so the silly right wing attempts to paint every anti-war supporter as a Cindy Sheehan is just more smoke and mirrors, its time we stop this and debate on the merits of the war in larger context of the war on terror and our interests in the ME

Exactly, all Iraq veterans in Congress voted for a time line to pull out, and they are safe and sound now obviously, it was what they felt was the best thing for American, the Constitution, and the soldiers in Iraq

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Sadly, we are more concerned with deaths of enemy civillians than we are our own troops.

Yea fuck those civilians, its their fault we invaded their country that had nothing to do with the attacks of 2001, morality is for pussies...

Better yet we can do what the old Roman Empire did, crucify a few of them, display their heads for all to see, murder every man, woman and child in the village and burn it to the ground, that will show em! Oh wait, the barbarians won in the end...

..end sarcasm.

Our troops are doing a damn fine job, its our politicians that is hurting them with continued poor planning, sticking to failed strategies and not providing clear and tangible goals of what exactly victory is. Until it is provided they shouldn't be there, continued failure by our leaders is causing more soldiers to die when they didn't have to

[Kytro]

I don't respect people for ideals, I respect them for actions. As long as the troops follow the politicans, they are merely supporting falsehood, and there is nothing noble about that.

I'd respect them if they were fighting for my freedom, but in Iraq they sure as hell are not.