New Twist in RNC/Rove/WH email scandal

Thorgrim · 06-19-2007, 02:54 AM

the new report reveals that in addition to Karl Rove, Andy Card, Ken Mehlman, Alberto Gonzales and as many as 88 other White House officials are involved, with many e-mail accounts being completely wiped out.

Crooks and Liars » Countdown: White House, RNC E-Mail Scandal Bigger Than Originally Thought

Yes I know, not everyone's favorite broadcaster, but if you want just listen to NBC's reporter discuss the issue, he's an objective news reporter anyway you look at it

I think this will easily eclipse the GSA scandal if they can get a firm lock on the emails and get the ball rolling...the first reporting of this story has all been very "well we know they exist but we haven't investigated them" for far too long, I'm disappointed the Democrats (bogged down with immigration/Iraq/other investigations) haven't done more, but hopefully this will jolt them into action...I find the whole "secret email accounts" to abuse the government to try and impose the GOP dominance to be a bit scary in the new online age

How does it make you feel?

thatguyoverthere · 06-19-2007, 07:09 AM

WOW... over 90 people suspected? I don't want to pass judgement based upon as of yet unproven allegations, but it appears like there are Hatch Act violations all over the place now.

When this broke, people here who know about computers and e mail said that there was virtually no chance that the e mails couldn't be retrieved in some way. I hope so, it would suck if 30 years after Watergate we still can't get over gaps in the tape.

Doesn't anyone in charge think that they are breaking the law with this sort of activity? Is there no one that can point it out to them? The risks of getting caught would outweigh the benefits of using those e mail accounts.

I just don't really get it. Why can't they use private accounts on their own time? Why can't they use their own computers if they want to conduct business for the RNC? There are still details of this that escape me, probably because those details haven't been released yet due to the pending investigation.

Donkey® · 06-19-2007, 08:45 AM

Nothing will come of this...as usual.

DosEquis · 06-19-2007, 11:04 AM

This administration is just beyond comprehension really. I don't even really know what to say, EXCEPT that being in the information technology industry and having setup email servers, a competent IT support group would have a tape backup of everything that has been said missing. This is done in the event their email server crashes.

SO one can say, though very suspect, that we "accidentally" deleted all this stuff. However they can't say (under oath anyway) we deleted this stuff AND "lost" the tapes which contain all the data. A lot of places which include my employer keep their tapes in an off site location where they are locked up like a safe deposit box at a bank.

Where is the backup of the email server?

hsmith · 06-19-2007, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

This administration is just beyond comprehension really. I don't even really know what to say, EXCEPT that being in the information technology industry and having setup email servers, a competent IT support group would have a tape backup of everything that has been said missing. This is done in the event their email server crashes.

SO one can say, though very suspect, that we "accidentally" deleted all this stuff. However they can't say (under oath anyway) we deleted this stuff AND "lost" the tapes which contain all the data. A lot of places which include my employer keep their tapes in an off site location where they are locked up like a safe deposit box at a bank.

Where is the backup of the email server?

deleted by the incinerator?

AVengeance · 06-20-2007, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Where is the backup of the email server?

I'm in the field too, and I'm wondering the same thing. You can "delete" emails all you like, but there are so many places you have to remove them from. The "deleted" folder on the client machine, the archives in the mail server software, the backup mail server, the on-site backups, and the offsite backups (which are usually DVDs or mag tapes). You can't delete specific information from mag tapes without totally rewriting the tape. Then, on all the servers where these emails were deleted, you'd have to be sure to zero out that space on the hard drive, otherwise the data is still there (the sector is just marked as blank).

Of course, actually solving the problem or pushing for the real answers isn't what the media wants to do. They want to build the drama, so they aren't going to dig that deep.

DosEquis · 06-20-2007, 11:10 AM

Yep. There is no way the email is gone... unless of course they went to extreme measures to make sure it is gone.

AVengeance · 06-20-2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Yep. There is no way the email is gone... unless of course they went to extreme measures to make sure it is gone.

And then they'd be found out, because there would be archives missing and/or damaged.

thatguyoverthere · 06-20-2007, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by AVengeance

And then they'd be found out, because there would be archives missing and/or damaged.

Innnnnnteresting...

So, there's no real way to cover this up, delete all this backup stuff, without obviously looking like you're intentionally deleting information? Hmm...

The thing is, if we're (the general public) just now learning about this, the investigators have got to be way ahead of us. It's impossible to imagine that some facts are not already there.

It's fascinating. I wonder how this one will turn out.

tbone · 06-20-2007, 09:35 PM

Your assuming they have the same backups as a public corporation. They may indeed have safeguards to destroy all but one copy to prevent leaks (or indictments).

motivez · 06-20-2007, 09:40 PM

Pretty pathetic the lengths they'll go to to hide their misdeeds.

I really don't understand why Democrats haven't pushed for Impeachment of both Bush and Cheney, there's just cause there IMO when you add up everything.

tbone · 06-20-2007, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Pretty pathetic the lengths they'll go to to hide their misdeeds.

I really don't understand why Democrats haven't pushed for Impeachment of both Bush and Cheney, there's just cause there IMO when you add up everything.

Don't have the 2/3 votes.

DosEquis · 06-21-2007, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by tbone

Your assuming they have the same backups as a public corporation. They may indeed have safeguards to destroy all but one copy to prevent leaks (or indictments).

That is still one copy. And they will most definitely have something comparable for backups as a public corporation. If their exchange server died and the did actually accidentally lose some email, they would want it back. I would bet every cent I am worth there is a backup of those emails some where, and that tid bit for some reason has escaped the media and they mention absolutely nothing of it.

Donkey® · 06-21-2007, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

That is still one copy. And they will most definitely have something comparable for backups as a public corporation. If their exchange server died and the did actually accidentally lose some email, they would want it back. I would bet every cent I am worth there is a backup of those emails some where, and that tid bit for some reason has escaped the media and they mention absolutely nothing of it.

If there is no backup or stash somewhere, then they got rid of it. At most, some low level Libby "did it on his own accord" and would take the fall.

Roonie · 06-21-2007, 11:00 AM

Impeachment should be forthcoming but it won't happen just cause or not. We can only hope.

hsmith · 06-21-2007, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

If there is no backup or stash somewhere, then they got rid of it. At most, some low level Libby "did it on his own accord" and would take the fall.

there are always backups, always.

AVengeance · 06-21-2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

Innnnnnteresting...

So, there's no real way to cover this up, delete all this backup stuff, without obviously looking like you're intentionally deleting information? Hmm...

The thing is, if we're (the general public) just now learning about this, the investigators have got to be way ahead of us. It's impossible to imagine that some facts are not already there.

It's fascinating. I wonder how this one will turn out.

Well, there are ways to cover up anything, but in terms of the kinds of backups they are likely using (and why exactly is the media not asking these quesitons?!?) you couldn't MODIFY the record, you would have to utterly DESTROY the record. Like WTC7. Lots of investigation files in there, and they were all utterly destroyed. If there's a "terrorist attack" on some government building where those email archives are, I swear to God two things: I didn't do it, and I called it first .

Now, let's see if the media will even bother to ask those hard questions. They could easily bring in some expert on IT security to talk about the emails, and this expert could easily go into SOP for various business and government entities of making archival copies of computer system state and data and how it would have to be a massive coverup for those emails to at one time exist but now be wiped from the universe.

motivez · 06-21-2007, 04:47 PM

Even if there's not backups, you can usually find the data still on the drive with forensic techniques

The data is there, and it's going to take a lot of work from the Democrats to get to the bottom of what all has transpired.. hopefully they continue to pursue it.

Roonie · 06-21-2007, 04:49 PM

Hopefully but I am sure they will drop the ball on this one too.

DosEquis · 06-21-2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Even if there's not backups, you can usually find the data still on the drive with forensic techniques

The data is there, and it's going to take a lot of work from the Democrats to get to the bottom of what all has transpired.. hopefully they continue to pursue it.

In order to get any of it they will have to get a court order stating they must turn over the data or the backups of the data. That takes forever on its own, giving them even more time to hide, lose, or erase things.

Some of the data can be recovered that way, but as the drives keep getting over written with new data it gets tougher and tougher to get anything back in that method. When something is deleted, it only removes the first bit of information off the data so that the computer no longer recognizes it. So if you accidentally delete your 40gb porn folder and don't want to lose it, immediately turn off your computer and plug that drive in to another machine. A cheap 3rd party program (ex. easyrecovery or something along those lines) could then probably get 80-90% of it back.

The file with the missing bit looks like free space to the computer and then it over writes the area with new data. If this process happens over and over it becomes much more difficult to get.