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Old 06-26-2007, 07:57 AM   #1
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Our Solar System not from Milky Way

Scientists Now Know: We're Not From Here!

Scientists Now Know: We're Not From Here!

Summary & comments by Dan Eden for Viewzone

Imagine the shock of growing up in a loving family with people you call "Mum" and "Dad" and then, suddenly, learning that you are actually adopted!

This same sense of shock came as scientists announced that the Sun, the Moon, our planet and its siblings, were not born into the familiar band of stars known as the Milky Way galaxy, but we actually belong to a strange formation with the unfamiliar name of the Sagittarius Dwarf galaxy!

How can this be?

Using volumes of data from the Two-Micron All Sky Survey (2MASS), a major project to survey the sky in infrared light led by the University of Massachusetts, the astronomers are answering questions that have baffled scientists for decades and proving that our own Milky Way is consuming one of its neighbors in a dramatic display of ongoing galactic cannibalism. The study published in the Astrophysical Journal, is the first to map the full extent of the Sagittarius galaxy and show in visually vivid detail how its debris wraps around and passes through our Milky Way. Sagittarius is 10,000 times smaller in mass than the Milky Way, so it is getting stretched out, torn apart and gobbled up by the bigger Milky Way.

A new infra red digital survey of the entire sky was made in 2003. Teams from the universities of Virginia and Massachusetts used a supercomputer to sort through half a billion stars to create a -- NEW STAR MAP showing our Solar System (yellow circle) to be at the exact nexus crossroads where two galaxies are actually joining.

"It's clear who's the bully in the interaction," said Steven Majewski, U.Va. professor of astronomy and lead author on the paper describing the results.

"If people had infrared-sensitive eyes, the entrails of Sagittarius would be a prominent fixture sweeping across our sky," Majewski said. "But at human, visual wavelengths, they become buried among countless intervening stars and obscuring dust. The great expanse of the Sagittarius system has been hidden from view."

Not any more. By using infrared maps, the astronomers filtered away millions of foreground stars to focus on a type of star called an M giant. These large, infrared-bright stars are populous in the Sagittarius galaxy but uncommon in the outer Milky Way. The 2MASS infrared map of M giant stars analyzed by Majewski and collaborators is the first to give a complete view of the Milky Way galaxy's meal of Sagittarius stars, now wrapping like a spaghetti noodle around the Milky Way. Prior to this work, astronomers had detected only a few scattered pieces of the disrupted Sagittarius dwarf. Even the existence of Sagittarius was unknown until the heart of this nearest satellite galaxy of the Milky Way was discovered by a British team of astronomers in 1994.

Here's an animation of the "marriage".

The fact that the Milky Way is seen in the sky at an angle has always puzzled astronomers. If we originated from the Milky Way, we ought to be oriented to the galaxy's ecliptic, with the planets aligned around our Sun in much the same angle as our Sun aligns with the Milky Way. Instead, as first suggested by researcher Matthew Perkins Erwin, the odd angle suggests that our Sun is influenced by some other system. Together with data from the Two-Micron All Sky Survey we now know what it is. We actually belong to the Sagittarius Dwarf galaxy.

"We sifted several thousand interesting stars from a catalog of half a billion," said co-author Michael Skrutskie, U.Va. professor of astronomy and principal investigator for the 2MASS project. "By tuning our maps of the sky to the 'right' kind of star, the Sagittarius system jumped into view."

We are from another galaxy in the process of joining with the Milky Way. The Milky Way is actually not our parent galaxy. The mystery of why the Milky Way has always been sideways in the night sky has never been answered -- until now.

"This first full-sky map of Sagittarius shows its extensive interaction with the Milky Way," Majewski said. "Both stars and star clusters now in the outer parts of the Milky Way have been 'stolen' from Sagittarius as the gravitational forces of the Milky Way nibbled away at its dwarf companion. This one vivid example shows that the Milky Way grows by eating its smaller neighbors."

The study's map of M giants depicts 2 billion years of Sagittarius stripping by the Milky Way, and suggests that Sagittarius has reached a critical phase in what had been a slow dance of death.

"After slow, continuous gnawing by the Milky Way, Sagittarius has been whittled down to the point that it cannot hold itself together much longer," said 2MASS Science Team member and study co-author Martin Weinberg of the University of Massachusetts. "We are seeing Sagittarius at the very end of its life as an intact system."

Does this mean we are at a unique moment in the life of our galaxy? Yes and no.

"Whenever possible, astronomers appeal to the principle that we are not at a special time or place in the universe," Majewski said. "Because over the 14 billion-year history of the Milky Way it is unlikely that we would just happen to catch a brief event like the death of Sagittarius, we infer that such events must be common in the life of big spiral galaxies like our own. The Milky Way probably dined on a number of dwarf galaxy snacks in the past."

On the other hand, Majewski and his colleagues have been surprised by the Earth's proximity to a portion of the Sagittarius debris.

"For only a few percent of its 240 million-year orbit around the Milky Way galaxy does our Solar System pass through the path of Sagittarius debris," Majewski said. "Remarkably, stars from Sagittarius are now raining down onto our present position in the Milky Way. Stars from an alien galaxy are relatively near us. We have to re-think our assumptions about the Milky Way galaxy to account for this contamination."

The new findings will help astronomers measure the total mass of the Milky Way and Sagittarius galaxies, and probe the quantity and distribution of the invisible dark matter in these systems.

"The shape of the Sagittarius debris trail shows us that the Milky Way's unseen dark matter is in a spherical distribution, a result that is quite unexpected," Weinberg said.

"The observations provide new insights into the nature of the mysterious dark matter," said Princeton's Spergel. "Either our galaxy is unusual or the dark matter has richer properties than postulated by conventional models."

Implications in Global Warming?

It has been postulated that this is the real reason for both global warming since higher energy levels of the Milky Way are almost certain to cause our Sun to burn hotter and emit higher energies. Indeed, temperatures have been seen to rise on virtually all the planets in our system. This seems quite apart from any local phenomenon like greenhouse gases etc.

This grand turning is possibly the root cause for the discontinuation of the Mayan calendar (the most accurate on the planet) because the 'read-point' of the Pleiades star cluster, which many believe the calendar was based upon, can no longer be a constant as we begin to steer away from the earlier predictable movements.

Other changes happening in our system

The "marriage" of our birth galaxy with our new adopted Milky Way galaxy is causing energy shifts that are obvious just about everywhere. Here are some changes being watched by scientists:

* A growth of dark spots on Pluto.

* Reporting of auroras on Saturn.

* Reporting of Uranus and Neptune polar shifts (They are magnetically conjugate planets), and the abrupt large-scale growth of Uranus' magnetosphere intensity.

* A change in light intensity and light spot dynamics on Neptune.

* The doubling of the magnetic field intensity on Jupiter (based upon 1992 data), and a series of new states and processes observed on this planet as an aftermath of a series of explosions in July 1994 [caused by "Comet" SL-9]. That is, a relaxation of a plasmoid train which excited the Jovian magnetosphere, thus inducing excessive plasma generation and it's release in the same manner as Solar coronal holes inducing an appearance of radiation belt brightening in decimeter band (13.2 and 36 cm), and the appearance of large auroral anomalies and a change of the Jupiter - Io system of currents.

Update Note: A stream of ionized hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, etc. is being directed to Jupiter from the volcanic areas of Io through a one million amperes flux tube. It is affecting the character of Jupiter's magnetic process and intensifying it's plasma genesis.[Z.I.Vselennaya "Earth and Universe" N3, 1997 plo-9 by NASA data]

* A series of Martian atmosphere transformations increasing its biosphere quality. In particularly, a cloudy growth in the equator area and an unusual growth of ozone concentration.

Update Note: Mars Surveyor Satellite encountered an atmospheric density double that projected by NASA upon entering a Mars orbit. This greater density bent one of the solar array arms beyond the full and open stop. This combination of events has delayed the beginning of the scheduled photo mission for one year.

* A first stage atmosphere generation on the Moon, where a growing natrium atmosphere is detected that reaches 9,000 km in height.

* Significant physical, chemical and optical changes observed on Venus; an inversion of dark and light spots detected for the first time, and a sharp decrease of sulfur-containing gases in its atmosphere.

* A Change in the Quality of Interplanetary Space Towards an Increase in Its Interplanetary and Solar-Planetary Transmitting Properties.

When speaking of new energetic and material qualities of interplanetary space, we must first point out the increase of the interplanetary domains energetic charge, and level of material saturation. This change of the typical mean state of interplanetary space has two main causes:

* The supply/inflow of matter from interstellar space. (Radiation material, ionized elements, and combinations.)

* The after effects of Solar Cycle 22 activity, especially as a result of fast coronal mass ejection's [CME's] of magnetized solar plasmas.

What does it all mean?

We of the overarching Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy have finally come down next to, and even with the massively powerful spiral armed equatorial plane of the Milky Way Galaxy.

In our movement through space, our Earth has now fully begun to respond to the more powerful galactic energies and electro-gravitational bias of the massive Milky Way. We have reached the higher energy equatorial disc region of the massive spiral arm. We have now been "adopted" by a new system, a stronger and more powerful system, and we can expect changes on almost every level of energy.

Whatever these changes are, they are all part of the natural birth, death, rebirth and transformation of the cosmos. As our knowledge of the universe grows, we cannot but understand how much we do not understand. Such is life.

[For further reading we suggest you go to Matthew Perkins Erwin's blog; abc.net.au and University of Virginia Department of Astronomy which was the basis of this summary.]

Readers may also be interested to read about Doomsday: The Mayan Prophecy.
Interesting theory.

At least now we know what is causing global warming
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Old 06-27-2007, 02:42 PM   #2
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I have known this for over a year now. Yet we've known about it's presence in the sky since it was discovered in the year 1994. I also know that a collision with the planet of another solar system within the Milky Way is the most probable cause to what must have caused our Asteroid Belt between Mars and Jupiter. The Sumerians knew this and they were the very first civilization 6,000 years ago.

Sagittarius A Dwarf Galaxy FTW

Here's the Mayan Story;

ViewZone asked me to write a story about the Mayan Calendar. There is a common belief that the calendar holds a prophecy that the end of the world will happen in 2012. At the time, I knew very little about the whole topic and when I began doing the research. I like to think I had an open mind. My investigation began with mainstream archaeology and the expert interpretations of the calendar. But it soon took a turn that made my hair literally stand on end. I am now convinced that these prophecies are true.
To understand what is likely to happen to Earth and it's people, you will need to remain calm and try to follow the facts. It's not as simple as some people describe. It requires an understanding of some fairly complicated scientific realities, but I think I can explain them in a way that you will easily understand.



The Calendar -- A Descrption

First, the Mayan calendar is also sometimes called the Aztec Calendar. This calendar is recorded as a carving on the Aztec "sun stone" currently on exhibit in the National Museum of Anthropology and History located within Chapultepec Park, Mexico City. There's a lot we could say about the carved stone but most of those details are irrelevant to the end times.

In our modern calendar, called the Gregorian Calendar, we have days, weeks, months and years. In the Mayan Calendar it's more complex. In fact, it's really three calendars. First there's a religious calendar that takes 260 days to complete a full religious cycle. There are 20 "weeks" made up of 13 days. Each week has a special name, a graphic logo and unique meaning associated with it. This rather reminds me of the Chinese years which cycle through "the year of the rat" and "the year of the monkey," etc., each with it's special image and meaning.




Graphic logos for each of the 20 religious weeks.

Next there is the solar calendar. This has 365 days, like our modern calendar. It's divided in 18 months of 20 days each. At the end of the cycle there's five special days considered to be unlucky because they don't belong to any month. Each of the months has a special name, graphic logo and some special significance.

So it is possible, for any specific date, the calculate the religious week and the solar month and to predict the influences that might be guiding fate. But that's not really what's involved with the prophecy of 2012. To understand that we must look at the third calendar, called the "long count."
While the first two cycles could be thought of as cogs or gears, revolving through time, the long count is a linear number of days, starting from the first day, "1," and counting through each day to the present. Any day in history can be recorded using the long count and, with some fancy mathematics, the corresponding religious week and solar month can also be found.

In writing this article, I thought about creating a javascript program that would do this calculation. My friend, Gene Matlock, then told me that when he was in Mexico, he found a place that sold wooden, mechanical calculators with gears that did just that. He said that Mexicans sometimes used these mechanical calendars to foretell the future or to find auspicious times for special events like marriage or births. Anyway, although it might be nice to know the religious and solar significance, it's the long count that foretells Doomsday.




Cog or "gears" can be used to compute the religious and solar cycles for any date.

The days of the long count are numbered with an unusual system. Instead of writing numbers as we do, from right to left with each place being a multiple of 10 (i.e. 10000, 1000, 100, 10, 1), the Mayans had only 5 places.

The first place recorded a number from 0 to 20. To the left, the second place could have a range from 0 to 17; the third from 0 to 19; the fourth from 0 to 19 and the last from 0 to 12. The numbers were written from right to left, like our system, separated by a dot. Instead of multiples of 10, the first place had a multiple of 1 (like our system); the second place a multiple of 20; the third a multiple of 360; the fourth a multiple of 7200 and the fifth a multiple of 144000.

So a long count number, for example, could be written as 4.12.5.9.0 and would be calculated as follows:

(4 x 144000) + (12 x 7200) + (5 x 360) + (9 x 20) + (0 x 1) or a long count of 145980.

It's not too difficult to realize that the maximum number which can be recorded this way would be 12.19.19.17.20, although some researchers like to write it as 13.0.0.0.0. This amounts to a long count number of 1,872,000 days or 5125.36 years of our modern calculations. Obviously, the calendar is very old!

Over the years, archaeologists have found carved monuments that recorded the long count for known dates in Mayan history. Once a date was fixed in time, it was easy to determine the "day 1" as August 11th, 3114 BC. And it was also easy to calculate the date at which the calendar would end -- December 21st, 2012.



Trust me, just because the calendar ends doesn't prove that time, or the world, or life will end. We need to look carefully at December 21, 2012 and try to understand why the Mayans never calculated a date beyond this point in time. To do this we must move from Archaeology to the science of Astronomy and Astrophysics.

It's all about the Sun


It's ironic (or maybe not) that the Mayan Calendar is often called the "sun stone." While the calendar does have "solar" days, acknowledging the 365 days it takes for Earth to rotate around the celestial body, it is also true that the Sun plays a key role in the final day of the "long count." To understand what will happen to the Sun on December 21, 2012, we need to review some scientific terms like "ecliptic," "barycenter," and "sunspots." These are important in the discussion that follows. We'll start with the most difficult one first.

Terms we will encounter...

What is the Barycenter?

You've no doubt heard that Earth revolves around the sun. Well, actually, that's not quite true!
Have you heard the term "center of gravity"? It's a technical-sounding term for something pretty simple. It's the exact center of all the material (that is, mass) that makes up the object. For example, if you have a straight stick, like a ruler or yardstick, there's a place at the middle where you can balance it on your finger. That's its center of gravity.



But the center of gravity may or may not be the point that is exactly in the middle, distance-wise, of the object. Some parts of the object may be heavier (denser) than others. If you have something like a sledge hammer that is heavier on one end than the other, the center of gravity will be much closer to the heavy end than the lighter end.



To get an idea of where the center of gravity is, rest the ends of any object like the ruler or a pencil on one finger from each hand. Slowly move your fingers together without dropping the object. Your fingers will meet underneath the object's center of gravity. You can balance the object on one finger at that special place.

The actual center of gravity could be close to the surface or deep inside, depending on whether the object is flat like a ruler or a dinner plate, or "three-dimensional," like a box or a ball. And if you let the object spin (like when you throw it), it will try to spin about that point.

In the case of the Earth and the sun, both bodies actually revolve, or spin, around the very center of the mass (similar to center of gravity) between them. This point is called the "barycenter." Earth and the sun are "connected" by the gravity pulling them together. It's just like the light end and heavy end of the sledge hammer. Compared to the size of the sun, Earth is about like a flea on a cat! So the center of mass between the Earth and the sun is almost--but not quite--the very center of the sun.
In the case of a planet the size of Jupiter, which is 318 times as massive as Earth, the barycenter of Jupiter and the sun is a bit further from the sun's center. So, as Jupiter revolves around the sun, the sun itself is actually revolving around this slightly off-center point, located just outside its center. Thus, a planet the size of Jupiter will make the sun (or any star) appear to wobble a tiny bit. This picture shows you that the center of mass and barycenter can be slightly different points. It isn't meant to be very accurate!



We can take advantage of this bit of knowledge and look for large planets in other solar systems by learning to detect this type of tiny wobble in the star's position.

For now, let's forget all the small planets and focus on Jupiter. It makes one complete trip around the Sun every 11.861773 years. There's a new theory put forth by Dr. Rollin Gillespie which shows that Jupiter, and to a smaller degree the other less massive planets, may trigger the 11 year cycle of sunspots and solar flares.



Here's how it works.

The barycenter is not a single point in the Sun. Because the Sun is a rotating gaseous sphere, the barycenter forms a vertical, cylindrical "sleeve" that is partially inside and outside the main solar body. All of the planets have such a "sleeve," one inside the other, depending on their relative mass and the location of their barycenters. The particular sleeve representing the mass of Jupiter intersects the solar surface at 35.9 degrees North and South. This is precisely where sunspot and flare activity begin and end during each 11 year cycle.

Scientists have noted that when Jupiter and Saturn are aligned, on the same side of the Sun, the solar activity is at its maximum; when they are on opposite sides of the Sun the solar activity is at its minimum.

These cylinders are usually quite orderly because the planets adhere to a narrow plane, called the ecliptic which resembles a thin plate extending from the equator of the Sun. The planets hang out here because (in simple terms) this is the zone where the gravitation of the system is the strongest. (see below)



The planets orbit the Sun in a narrow plane called the ecliptic.



But nature is never perfect. The Sun rotates at a slight angle (7.25 degrees), much as our Earth does. As it wobbles, it tilts the sleeves, causing them to clash with eachother and eventually disrupt the surface. This disturbance, to put it simply, works its way to the surface and erupts in sun spots and solar flares. The last solar cycle was in 2001. Each active solar cycle has a period when the flares are strongest, usually happening near the solar equator, called the "solar maximum." This is significant because the next "solar maximum" event will coincide with December 21, 2012. But wait -- there's much more!

Solar flares are pieces of the sun which leap into space, discharging radiation and strong electrical currents that travel outward into space. They often fall back to the surface of the Sun. Sometimes, a very strong flare, called a Coronal Mass Ejection (CME), actually leaves the Sun and this deadly mass shoots out from the Sun towards the planets like a bullet. Usually they don't hit anything but occasionally they hit a planet like Earth. Most flares are small. But even a small flare can be dangerous. In 1989 a flare hit the North American continent and fried electric lines, zapped power grids in the US and Canada, and created large power backouts. Flares can also effect our moods and physical health. In theory, a large flare impacting the Earth could zap the ionosphere and irradiate the surface, killing every living organism that it touched.

Solar flares and sun spots have an average cycle of 11.120412 years (estimated from one "solar maximum" to the next). Right now, 2007, we are in a relatively quiet part of the cycle. The small discrepancy between this figure and the 11.861773 year period of Jupiter is close enough to be significant but suggests that something else is also influencing solar disturbances. Sure, it could be attributed to the various positions of the other less massive planets, but it could also be something even more significant -- the Milky Way.




The Galactic Alignment of December 21, 2012

Our solar system is part of a huge disc shaped collection of stars and planets called the Milky Way. We're located somewhere on the edge of the disc, slightly on top of the narrow disc. But very soon we'll be moving to the bottom of the disc. This change, from top to bottom, begins on December 21, 2012.

Yes, that's right. On the same day when our Sun is at it's solar maximum, something will happen that's never happened before -- the ecliptic of our solar system will intersect with the Glactic plane, called the "Galactic Equator" of the Milky Way! [see star chart]

If you imagine our solar system as a bunch of peas on a plate, with a huge meatball in the center, imagine the Milky Way as a city-size pizza with the "Guiness World Book Record Meatball" in its center!

Prior to December 2012 we have been drifting on the top of the pizza, never really able to see the bottom. The plate and pizza are not parallel. They are moving at different angles. We've been drifting down, down, down... and on December 21st, 2012, we will be exactly level with the crust -- forming an "x" at the Galactic Equator where galactic gravity is the strongest. After 2012, if we are still here, we will be passing through the bottom zone, viewing the Milky Way pizza from the South.

Yes, there's even more!


By some amazing coincidence, not only will we be intersecting with the Galactic Equator, but we will be doing this precisely aligned with the center of the Galaxy where there is maximum mass! More mass means more gravity. More gravity means more influence from those barycenters in our Sun. That means exponential increases in solar disruptions -- all coinciding on the same day! Whew!



[Above: The Hercules Cluster of galaxies. This group of galaxies is held together by the gravitational attraction or "pull" of each individual galaxy on the others in the group. This demonstrates the enormous gravity contained in a galaxy, such as our own Milky Way.]

An apology and acknowledgement

Ok. This has been a "light weight" description of what's going to happen. It has been simplified to the point where some scholars and scientists could argue about my presentation. But the main facts are true. The date, December 21, 2012, is a special day. It represents the maximum possible influences for solar flares that the universe can provide. Undoubtedly the Mayans, or the civilization that influenced them, somehow knew about these things.

Over the last decade, I have written a variety of stories about such things as underground cities and government actions that could only make sense if there were no future. I cannot help but think that maybe they, like the Mayans, know about these things. I'd specifically like to suggest that readers take another look at the underground complex at Yamantau that the Russians are building. Could this be a haven for surviving a solar blast? And what about past events? Did the Hopi go underground to survive a similar event thousands of years earlier? Should we be going underground also?

It's also important to stress that December 21, 2012 is only the "solar maximum" but that the gravitational effects of the Galaxy have already started to assert their influence on the Sun. The drift towards alignment with the galactic equator is relatively slow and, in truth, has already started. But the precise culmination of this, plus the alignment of Jupiter and Saturn all make 12/21/12 an onimous date.

I especially want to thank Dr. Rollin Gillespie, a man with whom I corresponded for ten years and who first developed the idea that planetary multi-body systems could be at play in the causation of solar flares. More of his work can be read on a special page on Viewzone.

Please let's have your input on this important issue. It's only six years away. Who knows, perhaps the influences of these disruptions will begin well before the solar and Galactic maximum is reached. We may not have that much time left. Here are some additional links to stories that may help understand the possibilities facing our planet and us.

Magnetic Somersaults - Other possibilities on December 21, 2012: In the first quarter of 2001, the Sun switched magnetic poles. This occurs every eleven years. Prior to this the Sun's north magnetic pole was at the north rotational pole. Now the Sun's north magnetic pole is at its south pole. Since opposite poles attract, the magnetic poles of the Earth and Sun are now at their most stable.

Just about the time of 2012 Winter Solstice, the Sun's poles will switch back. During this switch there will be a tendency for the Sun's magnetic field to pull the Earth's field with it.

If the Earth's magnetic poles switch, this would put stress on the planet aggravating earthquakes and volcanos, not to mention destruction of the electrical power distribution grid. And, if the switch happens fast enough don't ever expect your computer to work again. But if you have old tube type equipment, keep it. It should survive just fine. It will work if you can find electricity.

Last edited by Nonphixion; 06-27-2007 at 03:51 PM..
 
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:31 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
This thread is now about Mayan apocalyptic fear mongering imo.
Oh noes

I was simply posting up what "readers may also be interested to read about"

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Old 06-28-2007, 09:21 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
This thread is now about Mayan apocalyptic fear mongering imo.
Yes, but it uses SCIENCE so it must all be true!!!
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:56 AM   #5
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That Mayan thing is actually an interesting read.

Not saying I agree with it, just interesting.
 
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:53 PM   #6
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Maya Galactic-Winter Solstice Alignment 2012 - © Dr Shepherd Simpson

Is there an Alignment between the Galactic Equator and the Sun at Winter Solstice 2012?:

No.

In fact there is an alignment between the Sun and the Galactic Equator at the time of Winter Solstice, but it has already happened. It happened back in 1997 [21st December 1997 AD 14h 43m GMT]. So, if the Maya did go through the sequence of the argument given above, their astrological predictions were out by some 15 years. [Which actually would be pretty good, seeing as they didn't have computers or astrological software to help them.]
 
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:25 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Simius View Post


Maya Galactic-Winter Solstice Alignment 2012 - © Dr Shepherd Simpson

Is there an Alignment between the Galactic Equator and the Sun at Winter Solstice 2012?:

No.

In fact there is an alignment between the Sun and the Galactic Equator at the time of Winter Solstice, but it has already happened. It happened back in 1997 [21st December 1997 AD 14h 43m GMT]. So, if the Maya did go through the sequence of the argument given above, their astrological predictions were out by some 15 years. [Which actually would be pretty good, seeing as they didn't have computers or astrological software to help them.]
The transit of the sun across the galactic equator lasts about 36 years, and the margin of error of that above "precise calculation" on your linked GeoCities page is +/- 18 years. More importantly to note is that the author of that amateur page claims multiple times (3 that I've counted) on both points that he is not qualified to infer as to what the Mayans were talking about.

I would also say that anything this man claims in relation to the Mayans should be taken with a grain of salt, and at worst discarded and deemed erroneous. The galactic center is a rather large entity, and I am sure in 1997 we did not know it's exact center-point. At ~24,800 lightyears away and ~400 ly across it is a rather difficult object to study. Especially when conjunct with our Milky Way's guest; Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy A. Obscuring much of the radio source from the Supermassive Black Hole (recently discovered) at our Galactic Center.

However, I find it more interesting that they calculated (or predicted) the age of the universe at exactly 16.4 billion years from it's beginning and creation. What business did a peoples making clay pots in the jungle have -- grappling and fathoming numbers that astonishingly high?

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Old 06-29-2007, 03:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Nonphixion View Post
The transit of the sun across the galactic equator lasts about 36 years, and the margin of error of that above "precise calculation" on your linked GeoCities page is +/- 18 years. More importantly to note is that the author of that amateur page claims multiple times (3 that I've counted) on both points that he is not qualified to infer as to what the Mayans were talking about.
Yeah... so the whole December 21, 2012 date isn't nearly as significant as the link you posted makes it sound. Give or take a couple of decades it might be accurate... But it seems to me that it is more of a coincidence that we are currently passing through the galactic equator than it being predicted by the Mayans.

I would also say that anything this man claims in relation to the Mayans should be taken with a grain of salt, and at worst discarded and deemed erroneous. The galactic center is a rather large entity, and I am sure in 1997 we did not know it's exact center-point. At ~24,800 lightyears away and ~400 ly across it is a rather difficult object to study. Especially when conjunct with our Milky Way's guest; Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy A. Obscuring much of the radio source from the Supermassive Black Hole (recently discovered) at our Galactic Center.
It is hard to study. Imagine how difficult it would have been for the Mayans to figure out where the galactic equator is and then for them to figure out when the Sun would pass through it. Impossible. Again, it happens to loosely coincide with the Mayan Calendar. But that is just a coincidence.

However, I find it more interesting that they calculated (or predicted) the age of the universe at exactly 16.4 billion years from it's beginning and creation. What business did a peoples making clay pots in the jungle have -- grappling and fathoming numbers that astonishingly high?
I've never heard that before. Link? <----This is the only part of my post that really matters to me.



(Oh before I was looking for the Newsweek article I had read that mentioned the galactic equator and the Mayan Calender. The article said we had already passed through it... but as I was searching I found the site I posted... and more importantly the pretty little gif. I have since tried to find Nasa's estimate of when we will be going through the galactic eqautor... and they linked me to the following site. So it's conclusions must be pretty good.
Astronomy Answers: 21 December 2012 )


The Mayan Calendar is pretty cool. I have a handmade key chain I bought in Mexico with it engraved on both sides. But I don't think it is a prophecy for the world to end. Even the Mayans I talked to said that December 21, 2012 was just the mark of a new Era. Kind of like how December 31, <insert year> isn't the end of the world in our calendars... it is just the mark of a new year. I guess I find it frustrating when people mix old beliefs and totally misrepresent them by adding in their own modern end of the world ideas into them.... then pass them off as old prophecies.
 
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Old 06-30-2007, 05:14 PM   #9
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galactic equator? the mayan galactic equator was defined in the same way as the current galactic coordinate system?

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Old 06-30-2007, 05:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Simius View Post
Yeah... so the whole December 21, 2012 date isn't nearly as significant as the link you posted makes it sound. Give or take a couple of decades it might be accurate... But it seems to me that it is more of a coincidence that we are currently passing through the galactic equator than it being predicted by the Mayans.

It is hard to study. Imagine how difficult it would have been for the Mayans to figure out where the galactic equator is and then for them to figure out when the Sun would pass through it. Impossible. Again, it happens to loosely coincide with the Mayan Calendar. But that is just a coincidence.


I've never heard that before. Link? <----This is the only part of my post that really matters to me.



(Oh before I was looking for the Newsweek article I had read that mentioned the galactic equator and the Mayan Calender. The article said we had already passed through it... but as I was searching I found the site I posted... and more importantly the pretty little gif. I have since tried to find Nasa's estimate of when we will be going through the galactic eqautor... and they linked me to the following site. So it's conclusions must be pretty good.
Astronomy Answers: 21 December 2012 )


The Mayan Calendar is pretty cool. I have a handmade key chain I bought in Mexico with it engraved on both sides. But I don't think it is a prophecy for the world to end. Even the Mayans I talked to said that December 21, 2012 was just the mark of a new Era. Kind of like how December 31, <insert year> isn't the end of the world in our calendars... it is just the mark of a new year. I guess I find it frustrating when people mix old beliefs and totally misrepresent them by adding in their own modern end of the world ideas into them.... then pass them off as old prophecies.
my first thoughts

galactic equator is pretty arbitrary

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Old 06-30-2007, 07:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mididoctors View Post
galactic equator? the mayan galactic equator was defined in the same way as the current galactic coordinate system?

Boris
London
I doubt they even had any idea that there was a galactic equator.
 
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:01 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Simius View Post
I doubt they even had any idea that there was a galactic equator.

Well one thing we do know... they experienced agriculture overshoot..so their wisdom had limits

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