Immigration, finally dead?

Stylerod · 06-28-2007, 02:49 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Senate drove a stake Thursday through President Bush's plan to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants, likely postponing major action on immigration until after the 2008 elections.
After the stinging political setback, Bush sounded resigned to defeat.

"Legal immigration is one of the top concerns of the American people, and Congress' failure to act on it is a disappointment," he said after an appearance in Newport, R.I. "A lot of us worked hard to see if we couldn't find common ground. It didn't work."

No you dumbshit. We are disappointed that so many in congress want to give amnesty to millions if illegals!!!! We are THRILLED it died, again.

Senate Blocks Immigration Bill

thomez · 06-28-2007, 02:51 PM

yay

I still wish they would adopt his original guest worker program, it was the best idea he has had in office

Publius · 06-28-2007, 02:53 PM

you know, as much as I dislike the idea of amnesty ... I can't think of anything else that would work at this point. You aren't going to be able to get rid of all the illegal workers, so how do you deal with it?

DosEquis · 06-28-2007, 02:57 PM

Hopefully it is. It is still amazing how many of them still did not listen to the people they represent. 80% of the country was against this bill, but 80% of the government was not. Something is wrong with our representative democracy.

Just like 65% of the people were for going to Iraq in the first place, but 100 senators voted for it.

Where is the disconnect taking place or what is causing this?

thomez · 06-28-2007, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

you know, as much as I dislike the idea of amnesty ... I can't think of anything else that would work at this point. You aren't going to be able to get rid of all the illegal workers, so how do you deal with it?

the only feasible answer is something close to what was suggested, but everyone hates it

"deport 'em all!" seems to be the rallying cry

millions of people.... like that is going to happen

that is like rounding up 5% of our population... a number of people far greater than the population of the state of Ohio... I don't think that is possible

the problem is, the longer we do nothing... the worse it gets

thomez · 06-28-2007, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Hopefully it is. It is still amazing how many of them still did not listen to the people they represent. 80% of the country was against this bill, but 80% of the government was not. Something is wrong with our representative democracy.

Just like 65% of the people were for going to Iraq in the first place, but 100 senators voted for it.

Where is the disconnect taking place or what is causing this?

I don't think the Iraq vote was unanimous

DosEquis · 06-28-2007, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

you know, as much as I dislike the idea of amnesty ... I can't think of anything else that would work at this point. You aren't going to be able to get rid of all the illegal workers, so how do you deal with it?

It would just take time. Secure the borders and i mean actually secure them. As the people are found here illegally, take their picture, finger print them, send them back to their point of origin, and remove their elligability to ever become a citizen. Penalize business that knowingly hires them. Then just enforce the immigration laws we already have.

That is all it would take and as far as those who are here illegally it may take 10 years to weed a good portion of them out.

DosEquis · 06-28-2007, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

I don't think the Iraq vote was unanimous

Ok Ok it was like 77 senators.

Stylerod · 06-28-2007, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

It would just take time. Secure the borders and i mean actually secure them. As the people are found to be here illegally, take their picture, finger print them, send them back to their point of origin, and remove their elligability to ever become a citizen. Penalize business that knowingly hires them. Then just enforce the immigration laws we already have.

That is all it would take and as far as those who are here illegally it may take 10 years to weed a good portion of them out.

Agreed.

Publius · 06-28-2007, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

It would just take time. Secure the borders and i mean actually secure them. As the people are found here illegally, take their picture, finger print them, send them back to their point of origin, and remove their elligability to ever become a citizen. Penalize business that knowingly hires them. Then just enforce the immigration laws we already have.

That is all it would take and as far as those who are here illegally it may take 10 years to weed a good portion of them out.

Sounds wonderful on paper, but in practice it would never work.

DosEquis · 06-28-2007, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

Sounds wonderful on paper, but in practice it would never work.

Why not? We have never tried it. If you took away their possibility of ever becoming citizens, and nobody wanted to hire them because the penalty far exceeded the financial benefit of hiring them... it removes the main reasons to come here.

Now they just show up hoping to wait it out, get thier amnesty and citizenship, while those who do it right just get screwed.

thomez · 06-28-2007, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

It would just take time. Secure the borders and i mean actually secure them. As the people are found here illegally, take their picture, finger print them, send them back to their point of origin, and remove their elligability to ever become a citizen. Penalize business that knowingly hires them. Then just enforce the immigration laws we already have.

The pro-business lobby is never going to let that happen, so we might as well focus on a feasible solution.

RMNIXON · 06-28-2007, 03:11 PM

It will be back before the Election if the Demcorats keep their word?

But the mood will get more and more political as that times nears so I think the chances will actually be worse unless major changes are made and anything that looks like Amnesty is thrown out! Or so we can hope!

But todays Baseball Bat to the Head felt Good!

thomez · 06-28-2007, 03:21 PM

the main focus points should be simple, in my opinion they should include:

document who is here, make sure they are paying taxes, obeying the law - if they are obeying the law and holding a job, put them on a path to citizenship - if they do not become citizens within X amount of time, they will be deported

implement a guest worker program that connects employers to employees, gives them documentation, and keeps track of them so they go home when supposed to - people involved in this guest worker program should also have a path to citizenship and this program should be for unlimited length so long as it is obeyed (the proposed legislation limited the time and also gave no path to citizenship, I believe that is wrong to do to people)

close the border with a fence and reasonably priced technology

the problem is meeting all of these in one bill and garnering the support of the American people... the louder the "deport, deport, deport!" crowd shouts, the less likely anything is done... and when nothing is done, the problem gets worse every day

six6ftr · 06-28-2007, 05:00 PM

I feel like the government does not want to solve this issue. We have a large amount of illegals using medicade and food assistance programs, so that could be a starting point for a tracking mechanism. We should at least start tracking them and then when the politicians agree to a decision, we already have a starting point. Right now we could be finger printing and taking pictures as these illegals come in for assistance then add them to a database for future use. Their friends and families members are already telling them how to get government assistance well before they get here.

The National Guard right now on the borders are not being utilized to their full advantage. The majority of these units are battle tested and experienced to deal with anything that they will encounter on the border, so why are they sitting around doing construction and paperwork. If that type of support is needed then they should request an Engineer Battalion and a Personnel Battalion but don't send infantry guys out there to sit around and do nothing except be a presence with no real role just for show.

I guess it was a good thing they asked for volunteers. (really shows the seriousness of the issue)

northhunter · 06-28-2007, 05:03 PM

Here's a thought, why not enforce the laws already on the books before passing new ones. Seems to me Sen Kennedy fixed the immigration problem some 20 years ago or at least he assured us he had right?
Something about fool me once comes to mind.

ballz2wallz · 06-28-2007, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Hopefully it is. It is still amazing how many of them still did not listen to the people they represent. 80% of the country was against this bill, but 80% of the government was not. Something is wrong with our representative democracy.

Just like 65% of the people were for going to Iraq in the first place, but 100 senators voted for it.

Where is the disconnect taking place or what is causing this?

Interesting, I've said the same thing about gay marriage, but for some reason I'm attacked because we don't run by 'mob rule' and the government is supposed to represent the minority...why not now?

six6ftr · 06-28-2007, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by northhunter

Here's a thought, why not enforce the laws already on the books before passing new ones. Seems to me Sen Kennedy fixed the immigration problem some 20 years ago or at least he assured us he had right?
Something about fool me once comes to mind.

Wasnt that the one of the excuses for the Patriot Act?

DosEquis · 06-28-2007, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Interesting, I've said the same thing about gay marriage, but for some reason I'm attacked because we don't run by 'mob rule' and the government is supposed to represent the minority...why not now?

I do see your point, but gay marriage involves rights. People do not have a right to come here, it is a priviledge and must do so within rules.

Gay marriage is different because it has to do with civil rights of actual citizens of this country. Just as slavery, segregation, discrimination, and other civil rights cases, gay marriage to me falls under that category. Plus the federal government really has no business in the personal lives of its legal citizens.

The federal government does have an obligation to enforce its immigration laws, the country wants it to enforce its immigration laws, and it has thus far failed to do so.

Linzyhop · 06-28-2007, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Interesting, I've said the same thing about gay marriage, but for some reason I'm attacked because we don't run by 'mob rule' and the government is supposed to represent the minority...why not now?

so you're against gay marriage? i'm confused.