Why don't more conservatives become teachers?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

I saw on the news some state senator is trying to pass a law which would fine teachers $500 for talking about politics in class. IMO, this law would be unconstitutional, but that aside, the law would be impossible to enforce. For example, how do you teach economics without talking about politics? Or history? And what is "talking about"? You can express a whole lot of political opinions without saying "X is bad," explicitly.

So rather than attempt to "balance" out liberals in such silly ways, why don't more conservatives become teachers? This reminds me of the fairness doctrine debate...conservatives always say, "Just get your own shows! It's a free market!" Well, there's a free market for teachers as well. In fact, I believe there's a shortage. So why don't more conservatives become teachers and try to mold the nation in their image?

And for the love of God, please don't respond that conservatives are too busy out in the working world making money, because there are millions of poor conservatives working worthless jobs.

[IminWonderland]

I think you have a good point.

And I think they should. But, I wonder if using the OMG LIbERAL SChoOLz EVerywhayre! excuse is the reason?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I think you have a good point.

And I think they should. But, I wonder if using the OMG LIbERAL SChoOLz EVerywhayre! excuse is the reason?

I don't necessarily believe that there are more liberal than conservative teachers below the college level. I think it's just a myth that the conservative media likes to spin. However, since graduate degrees are correlated with liberalism, I do believe it for college professors.

To clarify, I didn't ask the thread title as declaration that there really are fewer conservative teachers. I meant it as, "assuming you believe there are too few conservative teachers, which may or may not be true, why don't you, a conservative, become a teacher?"

[Stylerod]

I think it's simple really. People with a more conservative attitude tend to steer their education more towards business degrees. Where more liberal people tend to steer their education more towards the arts or education.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I think it's simple really. People with a more conservative attitude tend to steer their education more towards business degrees. Where more liberal people tend to steer their education more towards the arts or education.

is that why they call them "liberal arts?"

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I think it's simple really. People with a more conservative attitude tend to steer their education more towards business degrees. Where more liberal people tend to steer their education more towards the arts or education.

I thought that you didn't have to have a degree in the subject you teach if you teach in high school. So if that's true, a person with a business degree could teach anything.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I thought that you didn't have to have a degree in the subject you teach if you teach in high school. So if that's true, a person with a business degree could teach anything.

You would have to get teaching certified for different grade levels. It's extra work for low pay. Most conservatives wouldn't want to get into a crowded field of people looking for part-time work, 9 months a year for a low pay/strong union situation.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Most conservatives wouldn't want to get into a crowded field of people looking for part-time work, 9 months a year for a low pay/strong union situation.

I don't buy it. You act like the average college student with a business degree would be forgoing big bucks to be a teacher. It's just not true.

Let's say you're one of the 11tybillion conservative college students who graduates with a business degree every year. What are your options then? Unless you come from Harvard, all your options are crowded fields and you're not going to make much more than a teacher.

Sure, getting certified would be extra work, but I'm sure lots of people would find teaching/coaching more pleasant than being a cubicle monkey for some middle manager asshole.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I don't buy it. You act like the average college student with a business degree would be forgoing big bucks to be a teacher. It's just not true.

The average college student who goes into the Education field is a liberal. And once they're looking for absurdly strong union work, on tax payer money, demanding tenure, willing to strike if they don't get enough of a raise/benefits paid for, etc they have no reason to change their political affiliation.

The average college student going into business is looking to make something of themselves financially. They're willing to possibly take risks. The average college student going into teaching is looking for part-time work backed by the strongest union in the nation and tenure/job security.

Let's say you're one of the 11tybillion conservative college students who graduates with a business degree every year. What are your options then? Unless you come from Harvard, all your options are crowded fields and you're not going to make much more than a teacher.

Sure, getting certified would be extra work, but I'm sure lots of people would find teaching/coaching more pleasant than being a cubicle monkey for some middle manager asshole.

That would mean they're willing to settle for low pay, strong union work with little to no hope for advancement in return for job security. Most people going into business don't have that mentality. They have the mentality of being rewarded for hard work. They usually subscribe to the capitalism mentality.

[Scrum]

Conservatives have no interest in helping future generations learn.

They would rather sit back and complain about secular progressives teaching their kids.



Generalizing is fun.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by JaJae

You would have to get teaching certified for different grade levels. It's extra work for low pay. Most conservatives wouldn't want to get into a crowded field of people looking for part-time work, 9 months a year for a low pay/strong union situation.

It is a non-competitive field with a lot of Union political strong arm tactics. You can do it just like in the unseen levels of Hollywood, but you will learn that you are very isolated and it is best to keep your mouth shut unless you get real popular.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The average college student who goes into the Education field is a liberal. And once they're looking for absurdly strong union work, on tax payer money, demanding tenure, willing to strike if they don't get enough of a raise/benefits paid for, etc they have no reason to change their political affiliation.

The average college student going into business is looking to make something of themselves financially. They're willing to possibly take risks. The average college student going into teaching is looking for part-time work backed by the strongest union in the nation and tenure/job security.


That would mean they're willing to settle for low pay, strong union work with little to no hope for advancement in return for job security. Most people going into business don't have that mentality. They have the mentality of being rewarded for hard work. They usually subscribe to the capitalism mentality.

I think you've got the right idea.

But far as motivations go, people I know study education because they want to teach, they study business because they are more passionate about status and money than about more transcendental goals.

We can both make incorrect generalities, you can say people go into education to be lazy, and I can say people go into business to be shallow.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Conservatives have no interest in helping future generations learn.

What we gave up on is a political machine that cannot be made to work just by throwing more money at it. But we have not given up on Private Schools and Colleges, more competitive Charter Schools, and Vouchers so that some of your future generations can escape the dismal performance of the public schools.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

I think you've got the right idea.

But far as motivations go, people I know study education because they want to teach, they study business because they are more passionate about status and money than about more transcendental goals.

We can both make incorrect generalities, you can say people go into education to be lazy, and I can say people go into business to be shallow.

I was an education major and have teachers in the family. Hard working people. Always worked, and excelled at their jobs and wanted to get into teaching. They're doing well. However, when I was in school for it, the vast majority of people looking to be teachers were not like that at all. The good ones typically have a better chance at getting hired, but in my experience the vast majority of people going into Education never would have been in college 20 years ago.

In todays age everyone takes out loans and does the college thing. The middle class can afford it. And I think a lot of people who go into teaching do so just for the benefits. They end up flooding the job market and lowering teachers salaries which should be a lot higher for what they do and what they have to put up with.

And my "generalizations" come from my experience at the college level. I assume people eventually grow up, but that doesn't change the notion that a lot of people who go into the teaching field do so solely for the benefits. And when they're not defending themselves from the public and they're in classes talking frankly just about all of them will admit it's one of their top reasons for going into the field. Everyone has the "I want to help the children, blah blah blah." If that's the case they'd be social workers or what have you. The next things they always start talking about is the benefits. And that's what really draws them into the field. There's a lot of positions where you can help children. Only teaching has the benefits that draws them into the field. It's also a relatively unchallenging major in college. And like other unchallenging majors you get people who are in school just to be in school. And why not teaching, once you get out it's a perceived free ride. And in all honesty, if you're lucky enough to get hired and reach tenure it basically is.

Teachers have a tough job, but a lot of jobs are difficult and the days last a lot longer and they don't have tenure or the union to back them up. Teaching is one of those jobs where job performance doesn't really mean anything. Your performance isn't really evaluated as an individual in such a way as it means anything to you, your job, your pay or anything that has any relevance to anything important.

My brother is an architect and his fiance and all her friends are teachers. The housing market is in a slump and his company is laying people off like crazy. Whenever we all get together to go out the teachers always complain about their bad kids or annoying parents. He always says "Wow, it must be nice to not have to care about your boss." And when they do complain about their boss he always says "It's not like you really care what he says, it's not like he can fire you. What's the worse that'll happen, he'll give you an extra ADHD kid next year?" And as funny as it is, it's reality. What's worse is they're complaining about people still and it's summer... So my brother is like "Well it must be nice to complain about things that happened last year while you're off for three months." You really can't help but laugh at the reality of the situation.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I was an education major and have teachers in the family. Hard working people. Always worked, and excelled at their jobs and wanted to get into teaching. They're doing well. However, when I was in school for it, the vast majority of people looking to be teachers were not like that at all. The good ones typically have a better chance at getting hired, but in my experience the vast majority of people going into Education never would have been in college 20 years ago.

In todays age everyone takes out loans and does the college thing. The middle class can afford it. And I think a lot of people who go into teaching do so just for the benefits. They end up flooding the job market and lowering teachers salaries which should be a lot higher for what they do and what they have to put up with.

And my "generalizations" come from my experience at the college level. I assume people eventually grow up, but that doesn't change the notion that a lot of people who go into the teaching field do so solely for the benefits. And when they're not defending themselves from the public and they're in classes talking frankly just about all of them will admit it's one of their top reasons for going into the field. Everyone has the "I want to help the children, blah blah blah." If that's the case they'd be social workers or what have you. The next things they always start talking about is the benefits. And that's what really draws them into the field. There's a lot of positions where you can help children. Only teaching has the benefits that draws them into the field. It's also a relatively unchallenging major in college. And like other unchallenging majors you get people who are in school just to be in school. And why not teaching, once you get out it's a perceived free ride. And in all honesty, if you're lucky enough to get hired and reach tenure it basically is.

Teachers have a tough job, but a lot of jobs are difficult and the days last a lot longer and they don't have tenure or the union to back them up. Teaching is one of those jobs where job performance doesn't really mean anything.

I'd be very suprised to hear it. We are just talking anecdotaly here, but thats not what I've seen in any example I can think of. My sister just started as a english teacher, because she loves english, my friend just started as a history teacher, because he loves history. Elementary ed students I know are all nice little girls who love little kids.
I simply don't think I've ever even heard of anyone becoming a teacher for money, or even benefits. I've spent my whole life under public teacher benefits, I was eligible for better benefits working at circuit city. My dad just retired from 30 years at a public high school, and is now working part time at a private high school. For the first time in my life we have dental insurance, lol.

The tenure is absurd, I won't argue with that. But what kid coming out of high school honestly says, "I am gonna study education, so that I can get tenure and have job security"?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by JaJae

That would mean they're willing to settle for low pay, strong union work with little to no hope for advancement in return for job security. Most people going into business don't have that mentality. They have the mentality of being rewarded for hard work. They usually subscribe to the capitalism mentality.

How many conservatives with business degrees, right now, are working corporate jobs with little realistic chance of advancement, meager pay, they don't particularly enjoy the work, but they stay because it's a steady pay check?

Obviously, there are innumerable conservatives in such a situation. And since there are, why wouldn't some of them realize that the corporate world isn't all gravy, and instead opt to do a little teaching for a steady pay check?

You can't dismiss the question by saying they all want to be rewarded for hard work and are hoping to make it big one day. That type of delusional optimism exists in college, but I have a hard time believing that many business majors haven't smartened up after a few years in Office Space.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

How many conservatives with business degrees, right now, are working corporate jobs with little realistic chance of advancement, meager pay, they don't particularly enjoy the work, but they stay because it's a steady pay check?

Obviously, there are innumerable conservatives in such a situation. And since there are, why wouldn't some of them realize that the corporate world isn't all gravy, and instead opt to do a little teaching for a steady pay check?

You can't dismiss the question by saying they all want to be rewarded for hard work and are hoping to make it big one day. That type of delusional optimism exists in college, but I have a hard time believing that many business majors haven't smartened up after a few years in Office Space.

Why would you think there is little chance of advancement in the business world? That is completely wrong which makes the rest of this post nonsense.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Why would you think there is little chance of advancement in the business world? That is completely wrong which makes the rest of this post nonsense.

Because not everyone can be upper management. That's something that only a few people enjoy. Of course, I'm not saying that even low(er) level employees can't advance-- I'm sure they get cute little titles and incremental raises to make themselves feel important-- but striking it rich, so to speak, is a very rare thing, both in entrepreneurship and in rising up the corporate ladder.