45 Million American Uninsured... more like, 18 million

[DosEquis]

The problem with insurance is they need to turn a profit. So they are going to look for ways to keep their premiums up and their coverage down. It is the only way to be profitable. They probably have dozens (if not hundreds) of studies that they perform analyzing the ratio of coverage dollars to premium dollars to charge.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

The problem with insurance is they need to turn a profit. So they are going to look for ways to keep their premiums up and their coverage down. It is the only way to be profitable. They probably have dozens (if not hundreds) of studies that they perform analyzing the ratio of coverage dollars to premium dollars to charge.

Is turning a profit a 'problem'? Isn't that the crux of capitalism? And yet, even in the capitalist system we have today, somehow prices remain low in a competitive system. What makes you think that can't happen in healthcare?

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Is turning a profit a 'problem'? Isn't that the crux of capitalism? And yet, even in the capitalist system we have today, somehow prices remain low in a competitive system. What makes you think that can't happen in healthcare?

No, turning profit is normally not a problem in most instances. Its all about supply and demand and with health care, due simply to the amount of people we have, combined with our eating habits, lack of physical activity, pollution, cigarettes, etc, there is a very high demand. With demand comes increased prices. When it comes down to life or death, someone will pay just about anything so that they can live.

Personally I consider health treatment a moral obligation to society. This issue really makes conservatives look like "pro-life, until you are born". Then when the mom can't pay her doctor bill for the complications from the birth, people say "Welp tough luck sorry bout that, shouldn't planned better financially..everyone else has $200,000 laying around for medical bills your insurance didn't cover."

It is a moral issue and the real irony is the 'moral majority' is not behind it. I am not sure as to the solution. I know what we have now is not working that well, but I am not so confident in a government controlled system either. Maybe we could do some quasi-state controlled but federally funded system. I dont know.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

No, turning profit is normally not a problem in most instances. Its all about supply and demand and with health care, due simply to the amount of people we have, combined with our eating habits, lack of physical activity, pollution, cigarettes, etc, there is a very high demand. With demand comes increased prices.

People have nobody to blame but themselves for those issues. When the government starts supplying people with healthcare, expect higher rates of unhealthy habits, which will in turn strain the healthcare system, and due to an even higher rate of demand and an inability for the government to handle it, expect the worst healthcare system ever seen.

Kinda like social security right now...or education...

[DosEquis]

Social security is going bad because we keep spending the money. If we didn't spend the money we would have 3.5-4.0 trillion dollars in savings. Education is seeing funding being wasted on illegal immigrant children that have no right to attend those schools forcing districts to hire ESL teachers and buy ESL books. They are different and suffering because of seperate problems.

I am not sure that a new unhealthy generation is going to develop if healthcare is there for them. At a minimum i think healthcare should be there for anyone up to the age of 18. I also understand in most cases it is a lifestyle choice that gets people in trouble.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Social security is going bad because we keep spending the money. If we didn't spend the money we would have 3.5-4.0 trillion dollars in savings. Education is seeing funding being wasted on illegal immigrant children that have no right to attend those schools forcing districts to hire ESL teachers and buy ESL books. They are different and suffering because of seperate problems.

I am not sure that a new unhealthy generation is going to develop if healthcare is there for them. At a minimum i think healthcare should be there for anyone up to the age of 18. I also understand in most cases it is a lifestyle choice that gets people in trouble.

No, social security is going bad because we can't afford to pay for everyone for decades after the retirement age, unlike keeping them alive for a mere 5-10 yrs like it was in the 60s.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What does 'underinsured' mean?

It means everyone.

Because we all know all of us have to pay co-payments and our insurance eventually will hit a maximum payout.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

The problem with insurance is they need to turn a profit. So they are going to look for ways to keep their premiums up and their coverage down. It is the only way to be profitable. They probably have dozens (if not hundreds) of studies that they perform analyzing the ratio of coverage dollars to premium dollars to charge.

Grocery stores are evil, they are keeping food from people by trying to make money.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

No, social security is going bad because we can't afford to pay for everyone for decades after the retirement age, unlike keeping them alive for a mere 5-10 yrs like it was in the 60s.

No, with 4 trillion dollars earning interest (about 150 billion a year) and a 3:1 and 2:1 pay in until 2020. The balance would probably be exceeding 6 trillion dollars in 13 years. More than enough in the fund to cover the baby boomer die off.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Yes, but while there is a CHANCE the 18 million non-chronically uninsured Americans will contract something major causing them economic turmoil, the other 18 million Americans who are chronically uninsured are the ones that are the real problem. I've been between insurance companies before... that means i just didn't go to the doctor until I was insured again. Sure, I might have missed a check-up or something, but I was ok. It'd have sucked if I had been in a horrible car wreck or something like that, but we're talking about 6% of the population here... a few of them probably ended up in that insurance trap, but the chances are so small, it's pointless to talk about them.

And don't forget we don't deny people emergency care. You won't be left out on a side walk if you did get in a car wreck. Or any other accident that might happen to healthy young people who often don't want to pay into health insurance. But the bottom line is we have a very dishonest debate going on for the sake of politics.

Good post!

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

And don't forget we don't deny people emergency care. You won't be left out on a side walk if you did get in a car wreck. Or any other accident that might happen to healthy young people who often don't want to pay into health insurance. But the bottom line is we have a very dishonest debate going on for the sake of politics.

Good post!

The problem with that situation is that, yes those people will be treated... and also saddled with the entire bill. If it's sufficiently high ( and it will be ), it will result in yet another bankruptcy. The bill will be paid by everyone who has health insurance in the form of higher premiums , and by the taxpayers pay the rest. One person's financial life is ruined, and the rest of the country pays the bill. That's not really a good solution IMO.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

The problem with that situation is that, yes those people will be treated... and also saddled with the entire bill. If it's sufficiently high ( and it will be ), it will result in yet another bankruptcy. The bill will be paid by everyone who has health insurance in the form of higher premiums , and by the taxpayers pay the rest. One person's financial life is ruined, and the rest of the country pays the bill. That's not really a good solution IMO.

Here's the problem I have with this. 18 million uninsured in the country. For argument's sake we'll say there's 18 million illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants leech off the system worse than our 18 million uninsured do, yet the Democrats who typically support socialized health care claim they are helping the economy and not hurting it. Yet when it's Americans, doing a fraction of the damage they're doing all of a sudden it's a problem and the government needs to step in to resolve it.

I don't mean to make this an illegal immigration debate, I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic of the politicians supporting a socialized healthcare program. It's just politics to them.

We also have to factor in that this is a small percentage of the population. Paying for their healthcare is a drop int he bucket to the rising costs/wait lists, etc that would ensue if we went to a socialized system. The cost analysis of socialized healthcare can't be compared to our current system because the costs would most undoubtedly increase and continue to increase over time.

[Thorgrim]

More like 45 million...

They did not say those people were "undocumented illegal aliens" and people who are here on visas or are accepted are Americans...

And uninsured is uninsured...maybe you haven't known a friend who had terrible pain but couldn't see a doctor because his family told him it'd be too expensive, and it interfered with his work...but his family wasn't dirt poor, he was an adult, and clinic came back with "inconclusive" tests

I lost touch with him, but did find out he finally got a job with medical insurance and had surgery that relieved the pain...you're saying he wasn't uninsured?

And this 45 is low-balling it, as there are many people who are under-insured, and basically never see a doctor, and the one time they do need medical help, they are denied...how nice, they had a setup that paid thousands of dollars for medical insurance when they could have horded the money and got better treatment...completely screws over the idea of medical INSURANCE