Now over 1/10 new army recruit has to get a waiver for a criminal record

Thorgrim · 07-15-2007, 03:54 PM

WASHINGTON -- Nearly 12 percent of Army recruits who entered basic training this year needed a special waiver for those with criminal records, a dramatic increase over last year and 2 1/2 times the percentage four years ago, according to new Army statistics obtained by the Globe.

...

Army officials say the majority of such recruits committed relatively minor offenses and have not been in prison. They point out that waivers are granted only after a careful review of each soldier's history -- and only when the applicant has shown remorse or changed behavior.

But former military officials and defense specialists said they fear that enlisting more soldiers with criminal backgrounds will increase the risk of disciplinary problems and criminal activity among soldiers in uniform.

"Somebody who has demonstrated themselves to be guilty of misbehavior in civilian life has a good chance of behaving in the same way in the military," said John Hutson , judge advocate general of the Navy until 2000 and now dean of the Franklin Pierce Law Center at the University of New Hampshire.

More entering Army with criminal records - The Boston Globe

Is this the "new military" we are going to build in a post 9/11 world? I think it's a horrible idea

smokie700 · 07-15-2007, 06:37 PM

Well everyone makes mistakes and having a criminal record could be arrested for pissing in public. That should not disqualify someone from joining. You could always join if your not in agreement with the type of new recruits that are joining. Then you can change policy from within. Just let me know, I can hook you up with a recruiter and then you can join me here in iraq. We can spend downtime having spirited debates and stuff.

motivez · 07-15-2007, 06:56 PM

I'd like to see what kind of criminal record before passing too harsh a judgment, but I think considering we're probably going to be sending them over to a place that is essentially lawless, we should be very careful about the types of people we allow to serve.

Considering what has already happened in places like Haditha, etc, inadequate training could easily be combined with bad personality type to do major harm to our "efforts" in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Thorgrim · 07-15-2007, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by smokie700

Well everyone makes mistakes and having a criminal record could be arrested for pissing in public. That should not disqualify someone from joining. You could always join if your not in agreement with the type of new recruits that are joining. Then you can change policy from within. Just let me know, I can hook you up with a recruiter and then you can join me here in iraq. We can spend downtime having spirited debates and stuff.

I don't think assaulting a police officer is "everyone makes a mistake"...especially for the US military

Diesel66 · 07-16-2007, 12:35 AM

remember the military includes juvi records as well. Petty theft, vandalism, etc,,,,

JaJae · 07-16-2007, 01:19 AM

What percentage of the American population has a criminal record?

Simius · 07-16-2007, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

remember the military includes juvi records as well. Petty theft, vandalism, etc,,,,

I dunno what percent of the overall population has a criminal record... but 8 percent of the working age population have felonies on their records.

http://www.usdoj.gov/olp/pdf/naacpldfcomments_a.pdf

JaJae · 07-16-2007, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Simius

I dunno what percent of the overall population has a criminal record... but 8 percent of the working age population have felonies on their records.

http://www.usdoj.gov/olp/pdf/naacpldfcomments_a.pdf

That's felonies, not even misdemeanors? This number doesn't sound that far off from the reality. Especially considering that most people entering the military are middle to lower class males.

Linzyhop · 07-16-2007, 10:24 AM

i have a criminal record, but i'm an upstanding law biding citizen these days.. mostly everybody make stupid mistakes when they're teenagers....

six6ftr · 07-16-2007, 10:35 AM

They are not waivering felonies, most of these waivers are very minor misdemeanors and traffic violations. Even then, it still must go before a review board at that service branches highest level.

Thorgrim · 07-16-2007, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

i have a criminal record, but i'm an upstanding law biding citizen these days.. mostly everybody make stupid mistakes when they're teenagers....

I don't and I didn't...and my friends in federal agencies and other prestigous lines of work didn't either

Publius · 07-16-2007, 12:07 PM

I'd like to see what their crimes were. It's easy to make most people criminals when you outlaw so much.

smokie700 · 07-16-2007, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I don't think assaulting a police officer is "everyone makes a mistake"...especially for the US military

Please show where assaulting a police officer was in the article! I read it and saw nothing of the sort but I did see where the army officials most crimes were minor in nature and were not serious offenses.

goldenponderbob · 07-16-2007, 12:47 PM

[quote]"Somebody who has demonstrated themselves to be guilty of misbehavior in civilian life has a good chance of behaving in the same way in the military," said John Hutson , judge advocate general of the Navy until 2000 and now dean of the Franklin Pierce Law Center at the University of New Hampshire.{/QUOTE]

I could not disagree more.

When I was in the Navy, I met people who might have gone that way were it not for learning to take care of themselves. Learning were lucky enough to acquire after they became sailors.

goldenponderbob

Thorgrim · 07-16-2007, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by smokie700

Please show where assaulting a police officer was in the article! I read it and saw nothing of the sort but I did see where the army officials most crimes were minor in nature and were not serious offenses.

Must have been another article, but it was very close (and i never said the article directly said that):

to felonies such as burglary and aggravated assault.

DosEquis · 07-16-2007, 12:51 PM

I think the main point here should be that they are letting things slide that they never used to because they are having issues meeting recruiting needs.

I have a buddy who recruits for the navy. He said they have lightened up a little bit on the legal checks but no where near what the army has. He also said they are more relaxed on their entrance exams. He makes fun of them frequently like most between different branches of service do. When the army strong commercial comes on he replaces strong with dumb. "Think you are dumb, we'll make you army dumb". Stuff like that.

smokie700 · 07-16-2007, 12:53 PM

aggravated assault could be a bar fight. Only thing that makes it aggravated is having an object in your hand. That does not come close to assaulting an officer of the law.

Thorgrim · 07-16-2007, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by smokie700

aggravated assault could be a bar fight. Only thing that makes it aggravated is having an object in your hand. That does not come close to assaulting an officer of the law.

Burglary?

And yeah murder could be self defense but the jury didn't understand, so let murderers in

everyone has the right to a trial over aggrivated assault, and jury nullification exists where if the DA is pushing for aggrivated assault and the jury looks at the facts (they are the decider of the facts) and goes "he just had an object in his hand...this is silly" and they'd come back not guilty

smokie700 · 07-16-2007, 01:02 PM

what are you talking about?

assault is using no objects just hands only
aggravated assault is having an object
assault with deadly weapon is assaulting someone with a deadly weapon.

You can be charged with assault for just pushing someone.

Where are you coming up with murders?

Deleted: I saw no value of my comment and have voluntary removed it, MODS if i deserve and infraction for the comment i understand.

Thorgrim · 07-16-2007, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by smokie700

what are you talking about?

assault is using no objects just hands only
aggravated assault is having an object
assault with deadly weapon is assaulting someone with a deadly weapon.

You can be charged with assault for just pushing someone.

Where are you coming up with murders?

Is this just another attempt to inflame a discussion by making up things?

I am saying where your logic is going "oh well AA he could just have an object"

When in your entire life have you been an advocate of lowering the penalties and seriousness of AA because "it could just be an object"

and still, you didn't answer burglary, but I'm saying you can find an "excuse" for every crime, I just didn't expect it from the conservative side