Respect for Bush on Iraq

tbone · 07-16-2007, 01:47 PM

Ok, I criticize Bush....a LOT! Let's get that out of the way first.

Second, this is not a tongue in cheek post, I am being sincere in my praise.

I need to give Bush props on his convictions. It is evident from his actions that he honestly thinks he is doing the right thing in Iraq and his convictions will not allow him to sway from this. Despite singlehandedly giving the democrats the House and Senate, and most likely setting more GOP candidates up for unemployment, he sticks to his beliefs. If he were concerned about politics, he would have blinked a while ago on the Iraq issue, back when his approval was still in the high 30s.

I don't agree with him on Iraq or many other policies, but I do respect a man who stands by his beliefs no matter the consequences. Realized this today when reading the below article on how Bush is driving the GOP bus off a cliff due to Iraq. Found myself almost wanting to defend him for a moment.

Business Day - News Worth Knowing

WickedLou9 · 07-16-2007, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by tbone

Ok, I criticize Bush....a LOT! Let's get that out of the way first.

Second, this is not a tongue in cheek post, I am being sincere in my praise.

I need to give Bush props on his convictions. It is evident from his actions that he honestly thinks he is doing the right thing in Iraq and his convictions will not allow him to sway from this. Despite singlehandedly giving the democrats the House and Senate, and most likely setting more GOP candidates up for unemployment, he sticks to his beliefs. If he were concerned about politics, he would have blinked a while ago on the Iraq issue, back when his approval was still in the high 30s.

I don't agree with him on Iraq or many other policies, but I do respect a man who stands by his beliefs no matter the consequences. Realized this today when reading the below article on how Bush is driving the GOP bus off a cliff due to Iraq. Found myself almost wanting to defend him for a moment.

Business Day - News Worth Knowing

See I don't respect that. I respect someone more if they are open to the idea that they might be wrong. No one is infallible. No one is right all the time. To me it comes across as if he refuses to listen to anyone else, he thinks that he is right, despite the obvious futility of the situation. Especially because it's not him that is standing up for what he believes in. It's the men and women of the armed forces that do it for him.

Simius · 07-16-2007, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by tbone

...

but I do respect a man who stands by his beliefs no matter the consequences.

...

To me, that is very dangerous. If your convictions lead to bad policies... and those bad policies have grave consequences, it is better to have an open enough mind to change your convictions or your policies than to steadfastly stand by them as they continue to fail.

Publius · 07-16-2007, 01:59 PM

i don't consider stubborn bull-headedness to be a virtue.

Roonie · 07-16-2007, 02:12 PM

I consider that the mark of a real stubborn uneducated mule. No matter what your "convictions" are there should always be room for change. We live in a constantly changing world and so must our theories, ideas, and vision be willing to change to accomadate this. If everyone was as stubborn as Bush we would still be in the stone ages with rocks and spears and fire.

DosEquis · 07-16-2007, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Simius

To me, that is very dangerous. If your convictions lead to bad policies... and those bad policies have grave consequences, it is better to have an open enough mind to change your convictions or your policies than to steadfastly stand by them as they continue to fail.

Did you see the fallen soldier thing in Hastings Saturday? I guess the attorney general gave a speech and such. G/f of mine works with a Katie Gaspers, and her brother Kevin Gaspers lost his life in Iraq a month or so ago. The gasper family being from hastings and all, they had it put together down there. They put together one of those heroes banners and Katie's work helped sponser it and such. Rumor has it they are going to hang it in the school.

DosEquis · 07-16-2007, 02:13 PM

There is a difference between sticking to beliefs and being a moron. He is a moron and probably being pressured to stick with it in order to try to satisfy PNAC's agenda.

Donkey® · 07-16-2007, 03:31 PM

I don't respect him or this thread.

thomez · 07-16-2007, 04:47 PM

I think there is a difference between conviction on a moral or ethical level and conviction to a policy in an ever-changing situation despite all evidence that it might not be working as planned.

tbone · 07-16-2007, 08:46 PM

Well, I didn't say I agreed with him. I agree he is stubborn and he could of picked a much better issue to be stubborn on, one where lives weren't lost.

But nonetheless, if he believes he is right to be in Iraq, he is sticking to his convictions. Many of us are frequently wrong in our convictions, granted with less consequences, but many of us cave like a cheap deck of cards when the pressure is high as well.

I also have respect for the fact terrorists believe in something so much, they will give up their lives for it. Doesn't mean I agree with them nor are they right to suicide and kill other people when they do it, but I stand in awe of their conviction.

Can you honestly say your committed to something that much? Right or wrong?

kinggovernor · 07-16-2007, 08:50 PM

opinon polls are no way to fight a war

Roonie · 07-16-2007, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by tbone

Can you honestly say your committed to something that much? Right or wrong?

Yes..... several things in my life.

Kytro · 07-16-2007, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by tbone

I don't agree with him on Iraq or many other policies, but I do respect a man who stands by his beliefs no matter the consequences. Realized this today when reading the below article on how Bush is driving the GOP bus off a cliff due to Iraq. Found myself almost wanting to defend him for a moment.

Sticking to your guns (in and of itself) isn't a a good thing, just as blind belief in anything isn't good. Supporting an unpopular viewpoint can be admired if the the viewpoint is based on reason.

Kytro · 07-16-2007, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

opinon polls are no way to fight a war

While this is true, what Bush is doing isn't any better.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 07-16-2007, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by tbone

I don't agree with him on Iraq or many other policies, but I do respect a man who stands by his beliefs no matter the consequences.

Then I guess you also respect the God hates fags people as well as most suicide bombers.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-16-2007, 10:11 PM

I have to say I respect Bush for sticking by his principles and his beliefs, however, I do not agree with his recent decisions on Iraq. I also believe that leaders need to learn to listen to those around them, that you can not know everything about everything, it is impossible. That is why you surround yourself with wise councel. I do not think he's done that and I find that disappointing.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 07-16-2007, 10:18 PM

It's not like Bush has a choice at this point. He's bet his entire legacy on this, and it's too late to turn back. The only thing he has left is the misguided notion that he's respectable because, despite fucking everything up, he sticks to his beliefs. If he abandoned that, he'd have nothing left.

thomez · 07-16-2007, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

It's not like Bush has a choice at this point. He's bet his entire legacy on this, and it's too late to turn back. The only thing he has left is the misguided notion that he's respectable because, despite fucking everything up, he sticks to his beliefs. If he abandoned that, he'd have nothing left.

so true

kinggovernor · 07-16-2007, 10:32 PM

this thread makes me semihappy, I am glad some people still have respect for the office

tbone · 07-16-2007, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Then I guess you also respect the God hates fags people as well as most suicide bombers.

HUH?

Not sure I understand your point.