Here's how Democrats plan on paying for healthcare

ballz2wallz · 07-17-2007, 07:35 PM

Given the rampant debate over government-controlled healthcare and whether or not it will work, one has to ask, 'how will it be payed for?'. Well, here is one example of what the Democrats have in mind.

Yup, you got it, a tax increase, one which could easily destory businesses, lives, and the heritage of a city, state, and country!

It's no mathematical error: The federal government has proposed raising taxes on premium cigars, the kind Newman's family has been rolling for decades in Ybor City, by as much as 20,000 percent.

As part of an increase in tobacco taxes designed to pay for children's health insurance, the nickel-per-cigar tax that has ruled the industry could rise to as much as $10 per cigar.

"I'm not sure in the history of man, since our forefathers founded the country in 1776, that there's ever been a tax increase of 20,000 percent," said Newman, who runs the Tampa business founded by grandfather Julius Caesar Newman. "They had the Boston Tea Party for less than this."

What a surprise...

The Democrat controlled Congress has sought an extra $35-billion to $50-billion for the state children's health insurance program. The program distributes payments to the states to help buy coverage for kids not poor enough for Medicaid.

Thorgrim · 07-17-2007, 07:40 PM

Sounds like a great plan to me...do you have any idea how much public hospital money is wasted on people with lung problems related to cigars?

We need to up every cigar, cigarette, etc tax to help pay for healthcare even if we don't get universal healthcare FOR CHILDREN

ballz2wallz · 07-17-2007, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Sounds like a great plan to me...do you have any idea how much public hospital money is wasted on people with lung problems related to cigars?

We need to up every cigar, cigarette, etc tax to help pay for healthcare even if we don't get universal healthcare FOR CHILDREN

Why don't I just give up all my own responsibility and decision-making and let the government live my life for me? It's obvious they can live my life better than I can. While we're at it, why don't I give up all my freedoms too?

Thorgrim · 07-17-2007, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Why don't I just give up all my own responsibility and decision-making and let the government live my life for me? It's obvious they can live my life better than I can. While we're at it, why don't I give up all my freedoms too?

I don't see how forcing me to pay for someone else's cigar habits and then their health problems, and not going "gee, this is unfair, lets tax them so its even" is taking away freedoms and choices

Stylerod · 07-17-2007, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

We need to up every cigar, cigarette, etc tax to help pay for healthcare

My GOD! Do you realize this is a tax against the poor!!!!????

Studies show that smoking prevalence is higher among those who had earned a GED diploma (39.6 percent) and among those with 9-11 years of education (34.0 percent) compared with those with more than 16 years of education (8.0 percent). It's highest among persons living below the poverty level (29.1 percent).

Here we go again. The poor get poorer and the rich get richer....

hsmith · 07-17-2007, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Sounds like a great plan to me...do you have any idea how much public hospital money is wasted on people with lung problems related to cigars?

We need to up every cigar, cigarette, etc tax to help pay for healthcare even if we don't get universal healthcare FOR CHILDREN

my tax money shouldn't be paying for people that smoked their entire lives that have lung cancer in the first place.

WickedLou9 · 07-17-2007, 09:06 PM

Thats a little bit alarmist. It's just a proposal at this point and I don't think that it would be passed without changes. That being said, people who smoke cigars and pay 30 dollars per cigar won't be put out on the street if they have to pay 40 instead of 30. The 20,000 % figure comes from taking the cigar that costs 30 dollars, tacing it at 53% and then comparing it to the previous 5 cent tax. Dishonest journalism if you ask me. Why didn't they say as little as 10%? if the tax is capped at $10 and you buy a 100 dollar cigar, you opnly pay $10 tax. That's only a 10% tax. You can twist the numbers in many ways. The cigar industry is a boutique industry anyway. relativley few people smoke cigars, and it's mostly the higher income levels that smoke expensive cigars. Poor people smoke ciggarettes. For that reason it would not be a big deal if they made exemptions or changed the rules for cigars since not many people smoke them anyway. I am all for making the tax on ciggarettes higher to help offset the high cost of health care system that ciggarette smokers make disproportionatly high use of, driving up costs for everyone. Maybe it might encourage more people to quit. A double benefit.

Thorgrim · 07-17-2007, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by hsmith

my tax money shouldn't be paying for people that smoked their entire lives that have lung cancer in the first place.

hence the "for the children" part at the end?

6SpeedTA95 · 07-17-2007, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I don't see how forcing me to pay for someone else's cigar habits and then their health problems, and not going "gee, this is unfair, lets tax them so its even" is taking away freedoms and choices

Or how about you simply bar smokers from getting free healthcare for issues related to smoking?

Ardentfrost · 07-17-2007, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Sounds like a great plan to me...do you have any idea how much public hospital money is wasted on people with lung problems related to cigars?

wtf, you don't inhale cigar smoke.

Thorgrim · 07-17-2007, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Or how about you simply bar smokers from getting free healthcare for issues related to smoking?

because there are so many issues related to healthcare in our country that our government helps out with...it would take a giant agency to try and track people and deny them benefits and then all sorts of other problems would come in...

It would never ever work, the only solution is to look at how much smokers cost the american tax payer...and then try to tax them for it via their products

hsmith · 07-17-2007, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

hence the "for the children" part at the end?

do you not even read what you write

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Sounds like a great plan to me...do you have any idea how much public hospital money is wasted on people with lung problems related to cigars?

We need to up every cigar, cigarette, etc tax to help pay for healthcare even if we don't get universal healthcare FOR CHILDREN

Thorgrim · 07-17-2007, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

wtf, you don't inhale cigar smoke.

you don't try and inhale on a cigar, but believe me, you inhale smoke

Thorgrim · 07-17-2007, 10:57 PM

could you make the font on my quoted post a little bigger, I can't find my reading glasses

6SpeedTA95 · 07-17-2007, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

because there are so many issues related to healthcare in our country that our government helps out with...it would take a giant agency to try and track people and deny them benefits and then all sorts of other problems would come in...

It would never ever work, the only solution is to look at how much smokers cost the american tax payer...and then try to tax them for it via their products

No it wouldn't, if it is related to smoking you dont get free healthcare...instead you'd rather tax the snot out of people earning an honest living? Ruin family businesses for the irresponsible and reckless behavior of others?

Thorgrim · 07-17-2007, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

No it wouldn't, if it is related to smoking you dont get free healthcare...instead you'd rather tax the snot out of people earning an honest living? Ruin family businesses for the irresponsible and reckless behavior of others?

que?

Donkey® · 07-18-2007, 12:08 AM

Yeah, let me know when this is actually passed then i'll address it.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-18-2007, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

que?

A 20,000% tax increase would hurt many smoking business would it not?

Thorgrim · 07-18-2007, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

A 20,000% tax increase would hurt many smoking business would it not?

any tax increase on a business hurts that business in the short term

SpicyMcVoodoo · 07-18-2007, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

No it wouldn't, if it is related to smoking you dont get free healthcare...instead you'd rather tax the snot out of people earning an honest living? Ruin family businesses for the irresponsible and reckless behavior of others?

If you're going to pick an example of liberals destroying family businesses with taxes, you should probably pick a business whose products don't directly cause cancer in users and those unfortunate enough to be around them...you'd probably get more sympathy.