How glad is the GOP that they never used the "nuclear option"

WickedLou9 · 07-18-2007, 01:00 PM

Remember how much of a stink they put up about allowing an up or down vote when they had the majority? That was funny. Now the only thing that they are doing is preventing up or down votes. I think it would be better if they actually made them have to stand up there and continue speaking. It has become a procedural matter now. They just say that they won't end debate so the bill dies. Back in the good old days, you'd actually have to stand up there and talk. You couldn't say you wanted to keep debating and then not actually debate. Once you stoped talking, debate is over. They would read the damn phone book, anything to keep talking. We should bring that back. There is no sense in cutting off debate when debate is over. There is nothing to cut off. The fillibuster would actually mean something if they actually had to get up and talk endlessly.

thomez · 07-18-2007, 01:02 PM

yeah anything takes 60 votes in the Senate now

Thorgrim · 07-18-2007, 01:04 PM

And people wonder why the Democrats "haven't got anything passed"

An another note, I think the best step would be for Harry Reid to get the senators to refuse to leave for the August recess and keep them their the entire time debating Iraq, maybe not all-nighters, but full time...force the issue

That would be awesome

SoFlaJDM · 07-19-2007, 11:17 AM

it's fine with me... when the dems have 60+ seats in 2009, they'll be shitting bricks

Thorgrim · 07-19-2007, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

it's fine with me... when the dems have 60+ seats in 2009, they'll be shitting bricks

I'll go with 2011, and it's still some luck

But picking up 9 seats?

Lets look best case: Colorado is open, then you got, Sununu, Coleman, Collins, Smith...that's realistic, with Collins being the stretch

That's 5 seats

The 4 others?

We'd need Warner to retire and Mark Warner to run, Domenici retires or goes more batshit crazy...

That's 7, that's a big stretch

To get two more, we'd need 2 of the following: Ted Stevens gets arrested/raided in the corruption quasi-probes right before the eleciton, Texas elects a Democrat for the federal level, SC same thing with a popular among moderates Graham, Kentucky throws out the minority leader of the GOP, Elizabeth Dole get's a serious challenge in NC, Hagel retires and Bob Kerrey runs

The most liekly scenario being Dole getting a serious challenge and Hagel retiring...and those are ultra-slim chances

Even then, we'd get 9 by the skin of our teeth...even in 2006 we didn't have such luck, that was an off-year when people were disgusting with Republicans...if Obama, Hillary or Edwards (the three leaders) gets nominated, you're gonna have a huge GOP turnout and we'll be lucky to get 4/5 seats i listed first

However, 2010...we got specter, grassley might retire in blue iowa, mccain might retire in an ever-blueing southwest, the GOP is shambles in Ohio and Voinovich will suffer, Martinez barely won and isn't particular popular, Vitter is a mess, Gregg is in blue NH, Thune might face a rematch against Daschle which would be intersting because Daschle did A HELL of a lot more for ND than Thune did

That's 8 seats we could pickup, with Arizona being the longshot

I'd say 4 seats this year, 6 seats in 2010 as long as Hillary isn't elected and pisses off MODERATES by 2010

That's how we get our 60

WickedLou9 · 07-19-2007, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'll go with 2011, and it's still some luck

But picking up 9 seats?

Lets look best case: Colorado is open, then you got, Sununu, Coleman, Collins, Smith...that's realistic, with Collins being the stretch

That's 5 seats

The 4 others?

We'd need Warner to retire and Mark Warner to run, Domenici retires or goes more batshit crazy...

That's 7, that's a big stretch

To get two more, we'd need 2 of the following: Ted Stevens gets arrested/raided in the corruption quasi-probes right before the eleciton, Texas elects a Democrat for the federal level, SC same thing with a popular among moderates Graham, Kentucky throws out the minority leader of the GOP, Elizabeth Dole get's a serious challenge in NC, Hagel retires and Bob Kerrey runs

The most liekly scenario being Dole getting a serious challenge and Hagel retiring...and those are ultra-slim chances

Even then, we'd get 9 by the skin of our teeth...even in 2006 we didn't have such luck, that was an off-year when people were disgusting with Republicans...if Obama, Hillary or Edwards (the three leaders) gets nominated, you're gonna have a huge GOP turnout and we'll be lucky to get 4/5 seats i listed first

However, 2010...we got specter, grassley might retire in blue iowa, mccain might retire in an ever-blueing southwest, the GOP is shambles in Ohio and Voinovich will suffer, Martinez barely won and isn't particular popular, Vitter is a mess, Gregg is in blue NH, Thune might face a rematch against Daschle which would be intersting because Daschle did A HELL of a lot more for ND than Thune did

That's 8 seats we could pickup, with Arizona being the longshot

I'd say 4 seats this year, 6 seats in 2010 as long as Hillary isn't elected and pisses off MODERATES by 2010

That's how we get our 60

The Dems don't need a 60 seat majority though. They just need enough of a majority so that pulling 3 or 4 from the GOP to vote thier way will get them the 60 vote majority. That's alot more likely.

RMNIXON · 07-19-2007, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Remember how much of a stink they put up about allowing an up or down vote when they had the majority? That was funny. Now the only thing that they are doing is preventing up or down votes. I think it would be better if they actually made them have to stand up there and continue speaking. It has become a procedural matter now. They just say that they won't end debate so the bill dies. Back in the good old days, you'd actually have to stand up there and talk. You couldn't say you wanted to keep debating and then not actually debate. Once you stoped talking, debate is over. They would read the damn phone book, anything to keep talking. We should bring that back. There is no sense in cutting off debate when debate is over. There is nothing to cut off. The fillibuster would actually mean something if they actually had to get up and talk endlessly.

Remeber "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington?"

SoFlaJDM · 07-19-2007, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'll go with 2011, and it's still some luck

But picking up 9 seats?

Lets look best case: Colorado is open, then you got, Sununu, Coleman, Collins, Smith...that's realistic, with Collins being the stretch

That's 5 seats

The 4 others?

We'd need Warner to retire and Mark Warner to run, Domenici retires or goes more batshit crazy...

That's 7, that's a big stretch

To get two more, we'd need 2 of the following: Ted Stevens gets arrested/raided in the corruption quasi-probes right before the eleciton, Texas elects a Democrat for the federal level, SC same thing with a popular among moderates Graham, Kentucky throws out the minority leader of the GOP, Elizabeth Dole get's a serious challenge in NC, Hagel retires and Bob Kerrey runs

The most liekly scenario being Dole getting a serious challenge and Hagel retiring...and those are ultra-slim chances

Even then, we'd get 9 by the skin of our teeth...even in 2006 we didn't have such luck, that was an off-year when people were disgusting with Republicans...if Obama, Hillary or Edwards (the three leaders) gets nominated, you're gonna have a huge GOP turnout and we'll be lucky to get 4/5 seats i listed first

However, 2010...we got specter, grassley might retire in blue iowa, mccain might retire in an ever-blueing southwest, the GOP is shambles in Ohio and Voinovich will suffer, Martinez barely won and isn't particular popular, Vitter is a mess, Gregg is in blue NH, Thune might face a rematch against Daschle which would be intersting because Daschle did A HELL of a lot more for ND than Thune did

That's 8 seats we could pickup, with Arizona being the longshot

I'd say 4 seats this year, 6 seats in 2010 as long as Hillary isn't elected and pisses off MODERATES by 2010

That's how we get our 60

all good reasons, but there's always macaca moments

stevens just may retire, he may outright lose.

colorado is a tossup this year.

lindsey graham isn't married

Thorgrim · 07-19-2007, 03:46 PM

I think Colorado is lean Dem, not tossup...Udall is gold in Colorado amongst moderates and has a big warchest