Giuliani on HIV: It's like 9/11! - Page 2

Joe_Cool · 07-27-2007, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't think that's the case at all, the past is fine to analyze and discuss and bring up, but when it's done to the exclusion of the actual situation being discussed it's pretty pathetic.. and it happens so routinely that it merits mention.

Wait, you're claiming he tried to turn the discussion to Clinton, to the exclusion of the actual topic? That's complete bullshit and you know it.

motivez · 07-27-2007, 06:46 PM

Once successful in changing the topic to Clinton (which is usually the goal from the getgo), the original topic is rarely discussed, as it's a

fest

Joe_Cool · 07-27-2007, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Once successful in changing the topic to Clinton (which is usually the goal from the getgo), the original topic is rarely discussed, as it's a fest

The only attempt at a subject change in this thread was your "OMG you're talking about Clinton" nonsense.

Joe_Cool · 07-27-2007, 07:03 PM

Anyway, back to the topic:

Giuliani is an authoritarian, opportunistic piece of crap. No matter who wins this election - whether it's Clinton, Obama, McCain, Giuliani, or Romney - it's going to be a bad 4 years.

The only two candidates I think are worth voting for - Ron Paul and Bill Richardson - have two chances to win: Jack and Shit. And Jack left town.

motivez · 07-27-2007, 07:07 PM

I think it'll be a much better 4 years with Clinton or Obama than with someone who'll continue Bush's policies

Joe_Cool · 07-27-2007, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think it'll be a much better 4 years with Clinton or Obama than with someone who'll continue Bush's policies

Not so much. I'm not a big fan of communism or gun control.

DosEquis · 07-27-2007, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Not so much. I'm not a big fan of communism or gun control.

Congress and senate are still conservative enough that such legislation would not pass.

thomez · 07-27-2007, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Congress and senate are still conservative enough that such legislation would not pass.

I have no confidence in that after watching a Republican Congress pass that piece of shit prescription drug bill.

DosEquis · 07-27-2007, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

I have no confidence in that after watching a Republican Congress pass that piece of shit prescription drug bill.

I will give you that, except that despite its bloated nature it is no where near a universal healthcare program. That program is tied to that dirty word socialism.

Joe_Cool · 07-27-2007, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I will give you that, except that despite its bloated nature it is no where near a universal healthcare program. That program is tied to that dirty word socialism.

You say it derisively, but it IS socialism, which IS a bad thing. Socialism is the exact opposite of personal responsibility. Feel free to earn as much as you want, spend as much as you want, and pay for what you use. End of story.

If you want socialism, go to France or Venezuela.

PetriW · 07-27-2007, 09:05 PM

It's not possible to get universal healthcare without losing personal freedom. Just as it isn't possible to get a (decent) army to defend your nation without losing personal freedom.

And saying you don't want socialism then mention Venezuela is kinda meh, I don't think all that many around here believe you need Hugo Chavez style governing to get universal healthcare.

Anyway, isn't socialism about realizing your responisibility toward the community? Draw it too far and you get communism, don't draw it far enough and you get anarchy (which would then probably become some other nasty type of government).

thomez · 07-27-2007, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I will give you that, except that despite its bloated nature it is no where near a universal healthcare program. That program is tied to that dirty word socialism.

That isn't the issue, the issue is that the Republicans will vote for something like that at all... if they'll vote for that, what will they vote for... I have no faith that under the right circumstances they wouldn't vote for other such things.

SoFlaJDM · 07-27-2007, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Not so much. I'm not a big fan of communism or gun control.

but fascism is a-ok

Joe_Cool · 07-28-2007, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

but fascism is a-ok

404 Fascism not found.

RMNIXON · 07-28-2007, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

It's just funny that every time some Republican does something stupid, there's always someone (whether it be on Fox News or these forums or elsewhere) who has to bring in Bill Clinton to change the subject and divert attention

It was a medical subject and I made a good example related to Federal and Local control. If that is not clear enough for a legitimate argument we can talk about the VA under any President.

RMNIXON · 07-28-2007, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

The only attempt at a subject change in this thread was your "OMG you're talking about Clinton" nonsense.

Joe_Cool · 07-28-2007, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by PetriW

It's not possible to get universal healthcare without losing personal freedom. Just as it isn't possible to get a (decent) army to defend your nation without losing personal freedom.

And saying you don't want socialism then mention Venezuela is kinda meh, I don't think all that many around here believe you need Hugo Chavez style governing to get universal healthcare.

Anyway, isn't socialism about realizing your responisibility toward the community? Draw it too far and you get communism, don't draw it far enough and you get anarchy (which would then probably become some other nasty type of government).

Sorry, socialism is about the government spending my paycheck for me because it thinks it knows better than I do what's good for me. And no matter what angle you view it from, I'll oppose it.

I'm fine with paying taxes so that the government can operate and do what it needs to do. I am NOT fine with paying more taxes to pay for everybody else's doctor visits.

You pay for what you use, and I'll pay for what I use, and everybody is happy.

Rouger2 · 07-28-2007, 06:31 PM

You know as far as changing the subject or diverting attention both parties are good at it and do it all the time. The conservatives with clinton and the democrats with their forcing so much attention on Gonzlales, anything that puts pressure on the other and forces them and the public to use energy and attention on issues that are of minor importance and keep them from seeing how they have nothing to say and do that is of importance for this country.

PetriW · 07-29-2007, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

I'm fine with paying taxes so that the government can operate and do what it needs to do. I am NOT fine with paying more taxes to pay for everybody else's doctor visits.

Your socialist nation is spending your money on the army then. Not everyone in the usa wants to spend so much on the army, clearly they should be given a choice if they want to pay or not.
It's after all not reasonable to think all citizens of the usa believes that the government needs to spend 50% of the total world military spending to "be able to operate". Should those not be given the freedom to choose too?

Joe_Cool · 07-29-2007, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by PetriW

Your socialist nation is spending your money on the army then. Not everyone in the usa wants to spend so much on the army, clearly they should be given a choice if they want to pay or not.

They should amend the Constitution, then.